Picture needed

[SeanMc]

Of the magnet on the crank that the CPS reads from. I recently had my car shut off due to some freak occurance. Inside the timing belt area there were some bearings, and my CPS was physically broken. CPS was replaced, and I still wasn't able to get any spark. Better yet, I wasn't able to pull codes. So the ECU was replaced, and now the codes thrown are 111, but I still can't start the car. I talked with Ernie (egroce11) yesterday, and he said if that magnet is bent, it will break the CPS. Happened to a friend of his. I'm betting a timing belt pulley's bearings came out, flew around in the timing belt area, bent the thing, and then broke the CPS. If the CPS was replaced, but the magnet still bent, I'm wondering if it didn't break the new one. Anyhow, if anyone has a pic of it, atx preferred but not needed, it'd be appreciated.

 

[AREA 91]

The "magnet" that you are refering to is just a shutter wheel. The CPS gets its reading from the 3 "vanes" that pass through it. If any of them are bent, you will destroy the CPS. You must also gap the CPS to .030. In this area, the ATX and MTX are the same. For a pic go to:www.shophoenixproject.com

 

[SeanMc]

If they are bent, how do you bend them back?

 

[egroce11]

Very carefully! Seriously, try to find one in a junk yard or off an engine nobody is going to use.
(they are called earth magnets due to the material they are made of that does something to the elect. they either stop or let go thru, they just aren't like the magnets people are used to)

Ernie

 

[290]

Again there are no magnets anywhere near the crank sensor. Yes you can hammer it back into shape and you will probaly have to put it back on, gap it and spin it to see if anything is hitting and repeat. I know cause i bent mine up pretty good and it took me several tries to get it back into shape.

Rare earth magnets?! On the crank?! you dont know what your talking about! and your kind of misinformation is dangrous

 

[egroce11]

Again there are no magnets anywhere near the crank sensor. Yes you can hammer it back into shape and you will probaly have to put it back on, gap it and spin it to see if anything is hitting and repeat. I know cause i bent mine up pretty good and it took me several tries to get it back into shape.

Rare earth magnets?! On the crank?! you dont know what your talking about! and your kind of misinformation is dangrous

you are the reason I don't post very often, go read a book or something it is the type of metal the vane ismade of and not a magnet as you think it is.

 

[SeanMc]

you are the reason I don't post very often, go read a book or something it is the type of metal the vane ismade of and not a magnet as you think it is.

 

[ShadetreeSHOguy]

damn, never seen ernie get ****** before

 

[Endri_SHO]

you are the reason I don't post very often, go read a book or something it is the type of metal the vane ismade of and not a magnet as you think it is.

:laugh_ti:

this is is some funny bullyy..

 

[Shoaz]

FWIW, and with respect to Ernie, I'm not sure it's a magnet, either. I think the CPS is a Hall effect device, which just detects the metal vanes as they go by. There's no real need for the vanes to be magnetic.

That being said, I'm not positive that the CPS is a Hall effect device, but it certainly could be and the vanes wouldn't need to be magnetic if it were.

 

[290]

Its a hall effect but if the man wants to be right ill let him be.....

 

[egroce11]

http://www.denniswolfe.com/Taurus/RepairGuide/Repair.htm

Go to the above link click on engine electrical, than electronic ignition, than discription and operation.

290: Like I said before go read a book. I don't need anyone to let me be right, it is a Hall effect magnetic switch and the three vanes break up the pulses so when it hits an open spot it fires. I can't remember where I read the type of metal the vane is made from, but it was one of the electronic ignition books thats out there.

Sorry for venting ladies and gentlemen
Ernie

 

[290]

Thank you for proving my point?...... Where ANYWHERE in that artical do you see anything about a magnet that doesnt have to do with the the hall sensor itself? Sorry you are having such a problem with this, you are obviously angry and eager to prove your point but i just dont see anything related to a hall effect sensor that says the vane is made of any kind of special material.

Here is what you linked, i recomend you read it very carefully:

Tauruses with 3.0L and 3.2L SHO engines are equipped with an Electronic Ignition (EI) system previously known as the Distributorless Ignition System (DIS). As the name implies, there is no conventional distributor assembly in the engine. This system consists of:

A Crankshaft Position sensor (CKP sensor, formerly crankshaft timing sensor) that is a single Hall effect magnetic switch, which is activated by three vanes on the crankshaft timing pulley. The signal generated by this sensor is called Crankshaft Position (CKP). The CKP signal provides base timing and crankshaft speed (rpm) information to the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and the Powertrain Control Module (PCM).


Fig. 1: Crankshaft position sensor-SHO vehicles


A Camshaft Position sensor (CMP sensor) that is a single Hall effect magnetic switch also, but is activated by a single vane driven by the camshaft. This sensor provides camshaft rotational location information to the PCM. The Ignition Control Module (ICM) uses a Camshaft Position (CMP) signal for ignition coil fire sequencing. The PCM also uses the CMP signal for fuel injector synchronization.



If i am wrong i will gladly apologise for my first post in this thread.

 

[SeanMc]

"single hall effect magnetic switch"

I think you both may be right. It is a hall effect, but it is also a magnet. So, I say this; "can't we all just get along."

 

[SASHO91]

"I refuse your reality, and submit my own" ..... Adam Savage....



So what is the conclusion? Are they both right?

 

[SHOBlu]

I'm stayin outta this one!

BTW. Did SeanMc fix the problem, thats the real question.

 

[GoofSHO]

Not yet.

 

[SeanMc]

Not yet.

 

[HoustinoJillian]

Crank angle sensors basically come in two types: optical, and magnetic. Both work through the use of a transmitter and a pickup, which are interrupted by something passing between them, producing a [[square wave]] output. In an optical sensor, an [[infrared LED]] shines onto an IR sensor, and is interrupted by a disc (usually metal) with holes in it. In the magnetic type, a magnet is on one side, and the pickup is either a coil or a [[hall effect]] sensor. A [[diode]] is used to convert the coil output into a crude approximation of a square wave; as metal vanes of a [[reluctor]] wheel pass between the magnet and the coil, a magnetic field is interrupted and voltage is produced. Hall effect sensors are solid-state, and produce a square wave as the reluctor's vanes pass. Optical sensors typically have higher [[resolution]] than the magnetic; Magnetic sensors usually trip only once per revolution for each cylinder, while optical sensors often put out a signal for each degree of crank rotation - there are 360 holes in the disc


source:http://www.hyperlogos.org/book/export/html/9393

 

[Shoaz]

Since it's been confirmed to be a Hall effect sensor there's no need for the vanes to be magnetic. A Hall effect sensor uses the disruption of its own electro-magnetic field by a metallic object for proximity sensing.

I don't know whether there's any additional trickery going on with the vanes where some magnetization is added to improve reliability/accuracy/something. The tight specs on the gap for the cps have always led me to believe that the cps is either an unusual hall effect device or a very precise one.

BTW, another common example of a Hall effect sensor on the SHO is the ABS sensors. It can detect each of the little spikes on the ruffled wheel thingie as they pass in front of it.