oil leak cam seals again

[shoclown]

okay i am hoping someone has a fix or a idea, i have replaced my cam seals twice in the last month and the still leak.
i have checked the cam for scratches nicks etc and have not found antything other then stains from 12ok. i have replaced the seals on all for cams twice and it will start to leak in about 1-200 miles again. i have pulled the valve covers and resealed them thinking they were leaking and making the cam seals look like they are leaking.

i am replacing them like the thread for sho pheniox shows but still leaks. Would i have a better chance on the seal working if i were to remove the vc and the cam caps/and bolts then install the seal and reinstall the cap (the top half of seal hole)
Has anyone had a simular problem? am i over looking something? i was going to pull the caps off theis time and measure the cams thinking maybe its wore down all the way around causeing cam to be to small for seal??
is there a repair kit for the cams like the crank ( a small metal sleeve that slides on cam for new sealing surface) can i turn the seal around(putting it in backwards) or is this a pressure feed seal? does anyone know of a thinner seal or thicker that will change the spot the seal rides on? is there a way to double seal it?

i have a new y pipe and exhause but wont put it on till oil leak stops.

any help ideas would be greatly apreciated. i have followed the manual instructions as well as sho phenoix for installer info.
i have got to be over looking something...

 

[Kens1992mtxSHO]

What brand seals are you using?

 

[shoclown]

i have tried kragen/az national makes them i believe and the secound time i used two ford ones in the rear head only and the kragen brand agiain on the front.. Why are there some that i should not use?

 

[SHOtime2511]

get the motorcraft ones,people have told me other brands dont fit just right.
oh and a little RTV never hurts.

 

[Kens1992mtxSHO]

I went with Motorcraft when I was getting parts for my 60k because I've heard the same thing. Some just don't fit right.

 

[shoclown]

well thanks...i will try it again with motorcraft seals this weekend

 

[shoclown]

JUst called a couple parts houses and having trouble locating the motorcraft seals...anyone know a part Number?

 

[itwonder]

They are not Motorcraft. They are Ford, any dealer should be able to have them in a day for you for about $10 each, no shipping charges. Part Number E9DZ-6700-A.

These are the original, rubber coated steel case, made in Japan seals. An important thing about installing them ... because they mount in a cavity that has a seam where the valve cover meets the block, the seal can leak around the outside. This bit of lubrication in the wrong place then causes the seal to slip out of position, and when you inspect it you'll find the lip that contacts the cam is all distorted. Therefore, per the FSM, these seals must be installed with a film of RTV around the outer perimeter to glue them in place and assure no leakage around the outside.

The BCA National 1213N seal, which is the aftermarket seal called out for this application, has a steel case with no rubber coating. This seal can be used, but you should use anerobic sealant around the outer perimeter instead of RTV, just like we do for the transaxle's output shaft seals.

The Fel-pro TCS45870 is a set of 3 seals for this application. These seals are similar to the OEM seal construction in that they have a rubber coated steel case. However, they are slightly undersize compared to the OEM Ford seal, thus more sensitive to slipping out of position. On my car, I could not get these to work in the rear position, but they worked okay in the forward two positions where the fit in the cavity seems to be a little tighter.


The rearmost seal is easily damaged during installation because the case contacts the cavity before the lips of the sealing surface are fully over the camshaft. When you push the seal into place, it will tend to cant to one side instead of going in straight. That can bend the seal or cause the lips to be cut by the end of the camshaft. A few hints for avoiding that:

1. Put a circle of thin electrical tape around the end of the camshaft, letting the tape hang off by 1/4" or so. This will protect the seal lips as they slip over the sharp end.

2. Use grease to **** the seal lips and cam during installation (after installing the tape). It is really fun handling the seal with RTV around the outside and grease around the inside.

3. Bless shophoenixproject, but how he managed to install that seal by levering it in without having it cant sideways is beyond me. I use a heavy flat piece of steel about 2" wide, 8" long, and 1/2" thick to tap on the PVC coupling and gradually work the seal into the cavity, being very sure it stays straight. Once the lips are fully onto the camshaft, it goes easy. The steel bar is my low-clearance hammer for this job.

Yes, I've read another post where someone did install the seal by removing the VC and doing it that way. The other hints still apply.

Hope these suggestions help. They worked for me.

 

[oldyak]

my mechanic found the oil pressure switch was leaking......not the seals
just a thought

 

[38SHO]

fwiw I had rubber style national seals on my 3.2... I replaced the one with the cam sensor because it looked like it was leaking

I bought felpro ones off rockauto, they were completely the wrong size... however the box did say it was for a 89-95 SHO

now I have national seal with the steel outside like a trans axle seal or such... and that pos leaks... i probably didn't install it good, next time I'm going to use the anaerobic sealer and electrical tape method... **** maybe even just pull the valve cover, because I need to swap intake mani's anyhow

national is not a bad seal... in fact a lot of OEM seals say national on them....

 

[CheckerSHO]

I went through like 3 rear (cam sensor location) seals before i got one sealed up without leaking. Used all felpro seals in the end(after a few of the other seals) Seemed to have bad luck with the National seals with the metal outer ring. I had to sleeve a cam too, because of a nick I put in it removing the seal. I think, all in all, I had that timing belt off 5 times before I got it all sealed up But the good part is that I am really good at timing belt removal/installation though

 

[doclees]

I used Felpro on my 89 and haven't had an issue. If I remember I used the tape/grease trick plus I used an old seal and a pvc pipe to seat it.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

Correct - OEM original parts, packaged in a plastic-bag, labeled "made in Japan".

Personally, I would not use the Timken or BCA steel cam-seals. While they do work, your inserting a cheap steel sleeve-seal into an aluminum head. There is a much greater risk of damaging the head during either seal insertion or extraction, and the "Readi-sleeve" inserts are quite expensive if you look on RockAuto. If you do not have the Rotunda cam seal tool, use rubber-coated seals.

Chris (Mr. A) previously posted their (NESHO) documentation on problems with the Fel-Pro seals (cam and crank seal dimensions) that became an issue a few years ago.

Hence why I always recommend the OEM seals. I've only heard of them leaking when improperly installed (ie. not properly seated) or damaged.


On a side-note: F*** uses a number of factors in deciding when to discontinue a part. In addition to vehicle age, cross-application use, and number of units on-the-road, F*** looks at long-term product sales numbers. Basically, parts unique to the 1995 MTX (of which F*** produced only 2000 units) with average sales of 25 pieces per quarter, are more likely to be discontinued than parts that were used on every F*** vehicle over an 8-year period with average sales of 1,050 pieces per quarter. Hence why many SHO-specific parts are discontinued or obsolete.

My point here, is buy OEM cam seals !

They are not Motorcraft. They are Ford, any dealer should be able to have them in a day for you for about $10 each, no shipping charges. Part Number E9DZ-6700-A.

These are the original, rubber coated steel case, made in Japan seals. An important thing about installing them ... because they mount in a cavity that has a seam where the valve cover meets the block, the seal can leak around the outside. This bit of lubrication in the wrong place then causes the seal to slip out of position, and when you inspect it you'll find the lip that contacts the cam is all distorted. Therefore, per the FSM, these seals must be installed with a film of RTV around the outer perimeter to glue them in place and assure no leakage around the outside.

The BCA National 1213N seal, which is the aftermarket seal called out for this application, has a steel case with no rubber coating. This seal can be used, but you should use anerobic sealant around the outer perimeter instead of RTV, just like we do for the transaxle's output shaft seals.

The Fel-pro TCS45870 is a set of 3 seals for this application. These seals are similar to the OEM seal construction in that they have a rubber coated steel case. However, they are slightly undersize compared to the OEM Ford seal, thus more sensitive to slipping out of position. On my car, I could not get these to work in the rear position, but they worked okay in the forward two positions where the fit in the cavity seems to be a little tighter.


The rearmost seal is easily damaged during installation because the case contacts the cavity before the lips of the sealing surface are fully over the camshaft. When you push the seal into place, it will tend to cant to one side instead of going in straight. That can bend the seal or cause the lips to be cut by the end of the camshaft. A few hints for avoiding that:

1. Put a circle of thin electrical tape around the end of the camshaft, letting the tape hang off by 1/4" or so. This will protect the seal lips as they slip over the sharp end.

2. Use grease to **** the seal lips and cam during installation (after installing the tape). It is really fun handling the seal with RTV around the outside and grease around the inside.

3. Bless shophoenixproject, but how he managed to install that seal by levering it in without having it cant sideways is beyond me. I use a heavy flat piece of steel about 2" wide, 8" long, and 1/2" thick to tap on the PVC coupling and gradually work the seal into the cavity, being very sure it stays straight. Once the lips are fully onto the camshaft, it goes easy. The steel bar is my low-clearance hammer for this job.

Yes, I've read another post where someone did install the seal by removing the VC and doing it that way. The other hints still apply.

Hope these suggestions help. They worked for me.

 

[flintcustoms]

Any one have a detailed write up (with pics hopefully) for doing the rear cam seal?

Any info is much appeciated

 

[whlav]

oil,cam seals again leak

Old post that was never answered. Anyone have a detailed write up, with pictures if possible for installing rear cam seal?

 

[93SHOer]

Old post that was never answered. Anyone have a detailed write up, with pictures if possible for installing rear cam seal?

Ditto!! I'm looking for the same

 

[itwonder]

No time to write up a procedure right now, but if you look through my Photobucket SHO album, there are some pictures of the rear cam seal being replaced. Look for IMG_2132-IMG_2141
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/itwonder/SHO/

Combine that with the front 60k procedure on shophoenixproject.com maintenance section and you should have a good start.

 

[riden2low]

Any one have a detailed write up (with pics hopefully) for doing the rear cam seal?

Any info is much appeciated

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/

 

[AREA 91]

I must be the cheater here. I use my Rotunda 60K kit.

I also prefer the OEM seals.
I also alway's use some RTV on the outer dsiameter of the seals.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

I believe Scott Patterson (sdpatt) did a write-up many years ago that has sort of been the gold standard since. I don't know if it still exists on the forum anywhere or if it was lost in one of the crashes a couple of years back. I'll check to see if I might have saved a copy, but that could take a really long time so don't wait for me if you need to replace yours now!