need help with my new sho: water pump

[shocowboy]

hey, im new to this but it looks like every one here is a great help to all. i recently picked up a 94 sho wiht a 3.0 and a 5 spd manual tranny, and i love it recently just replaced the idler pullies cause i thought they were causign the bearign noise under the hood but it apears to be the water pump. i have been readign about the crank positioning sensor and was wonderign if this is something that has to be replaced when i do the waterpump and what the probability of it messign up on me is. The leak is still very small on the water pump. also if i should replace the CPS how dificult is this any special tools that i need to do this and is this somethign thats easy to royaly screw up. Any advice on this would be greatly appriciated im not used to workign on engines this complicated most all of my prior experiance has been on ford trucks both deisel and gas.

sho cowboy

-------------------------------
91 SHO with not much on it (yet)

 

[Bizzy]

It doesn't have to be replaced but since the water pump is leaking even a small amount it is advisable. At least that way you don't have to worry about doing all that work again. The prep work involved is worse than the actual sensor replacement.

 

[Mels]

Hey welcome fellow CT SHOwner! Get in touch with SHO-Ripper (Chris), as he's just up the road in Winsted and is probably the closest to you with the experience you're looking for.

BTW, getting pretty close to Goshen Fair time isn't it?

 

[shocowboy]

where exactly is the CPS, does the water pump and all have to come out ot replace it. i have auct just recently talked to chris's little brother and he has said to call either of em any time, and the goeshen fair was 2 weekends ago its always labor day weekend

 

[Mels]

Damn this job. Missed the Goshen fair, and it's not looking good for the Big-E either. Wasn't too long ago that I used to pull our '39 JD-B at the Goshen fair.

Outside of 'Ripper who's closer to you, both Bryan King at King Automotive and Fred Hurder at N.E.S.S. (both an easy 1-2 hour drive away in MA) are the best I've come to know, certainly with respect to your car.

Good luck!

 

[shocowboy]

anybody have any clue about the CPS, as i said these small engines arent my specialty

 

[Rockledge]

The CPS (a/k/a the PIP sensor) is down by the crankshaft, and requires taking apart a good portion of the front part of the engine.

Since it takes a bit of time and effort and requires removal of several components, doing a full "front 60K" maintenance procedure is strongly advised in almost every case of a water pump failure and/or CPS failure (they seem to go hand-in-hand). Replacing the front camshaft seals as a part of the process is also suggested.

The entire front 60K maintenance procedure is described in very good detail on the SHOPP site:

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/lower60k/lower60k.htm

Welcome to SHOForum.

 

[shocowboy]

any clue how much this is goign to run me i already have the water pump what else should i do exactly other than the CPS

 

[AutoSHO]

Get a timing belt and Front Main Seal as well. Both are cheap and easily accessible or removed when doing the Water Pump and CPS.

 

[shocowboy]

so what im looking at is a fairly large pain to do, what is the probability that the CPS is damaged any possability that i could get away with just replacing the water pump with out much over haulign and more major work in the future

 

[dstig1]

When I did my 60k and water pump 3 years ago, I replaced the following:
- Water pump (was leaking) $195
- CPS (water pump leaking on it - preventative) $100
- Timing belt (the reason I was in there, but if coolant gets on it, it is supposed to be replaced) $85
- Underdrive pulleys (perf upgrade from SP Motorsports, and a good time to do it since it is 90% apart already) $200
- New serpentine belts to fit the underdrives

I found out about the water pump after I got into it, so I wasn't price-shopping the pump and CPS.

3 Problems I ran into:
1. The o-ring seal on the water pump confused me and I installed it incorrectly at first. I don't remember the details, but pay attention to the ones you take out (also make sure it doesn't get left in the engine port!). I didn't watch for some reason. Found this out when I went to flush the cooling system after new pump was in, and it came flooding out of this end. Fortunately I didn't have the engine all back together so it was just cleanup and figure out the seal.

2. Crank bolt. This is your big problem. I have a good 1/2" Ingersoll-Rand air impact wrench. It took ~30 minutes of pounding with the impact gun to get that thing off. I know of the "starter" method, but was not comfortable with it, and figured it would come with enough time. Big air tools or the starter method are your solutions.

3. Pulling the crank pulley. Not enough space to get my puller in between the pulley and the fender lip and fully pull it clear (interfered as it came further off). Was a big hassle to get the pulley off, but I managed.

The CPS sensor is simple to get in and out - 1-2 small screws, and one connection. Was easy to get positioned too. You just need to get the durn crank pulley (and bolt) off to get to it.

Hope this helps.

Dave
'92 140k

 

[shocowboy]

so i have to take the crank pully off to get the CPS out, no way i can just slide it out after i take teh 2 screws out and put the new one in,

any calibration i have to do on that either?

 

[dstig1]

Good news is there is no calibration - just remove & replace, and go (on the CPS).

Bad news is you can't get the lower timing belt cover off (probably the middle one too - there are 3 pieces to the cover) without removing the crank pulley. The Helms manual lists removing the crank pulley for both water pump and timing belt replacement, so it doesn't look like you can get around it. I've only had mine apart once, and traumatic as it may be, it was 3 yrs ago. Someone who has done it more, or more recently, may have better advice, but I think you are stuck on this one. That is why so many people have been recommending all this extra "while you're in there" work. It's a big job to get "in there", so you might as well cover everything you can "while you're in there." (includes CPS, water pump, timing belt, serpentine belts)

From some other posts, you are getting hooked up with experienced SHO owners, so they should be able to help direct you. It's a big job, but so are many car projects. In the end it's mostly just taking stuff apart and putting it back together. If I can do it...

If you don't have the tools, patience or confidence, then a mechanic is the way to go.

-Dave
'92 5spd

 

[shocowboy]

thankx for the for all the advice it is greatly appricated, all you guys are great

 

[marvsho17]

I just got done with this job last week. Here's some tips.

Be sure to gap the cps to .76 mm or .03in.

There is no need to take an impact to the crank bolt, do the starter bump method is better. Dis connect the dis. Put a socket wrench on the bolt, place a piece of wood on the subframe to rest the wrench on and crank motor.

You can rent a crank puller from autozone for 15.00, make sure you thread the bolts thru the crank enough so that you can see threads on the other end. Take it off before you get the the fender wall or it'll get stuck, then just give it a pull.

Buy the fel pro water pump gasket set, it comes with all the gaskets and
o-rings.

If your doing the timing belt-which you should-buy some strap wrenches. I got mine from harbor freight for 2.99, only after spinning the cam sprockets with bloody hands.

p.s. There is a wealth of information in the archives if you get lost.

 

[shocowboy]

how crutial would yall say the timing belt is to do if it looks good without much wear

 

[Rockledge]

how crutial would yall say the timing belt is to do if it looks good without much wear

You can change the timing belt now, on your own terms, while you have everything apart already, or you can change it later, after you've been stranded on the highway and had to have your SHO towed home, as you sit in the passenger seat of the tow truck wondering why you didn't just change the belt beforehand when you had the chance...

BTW, almost everyone on the board always seems to say that their "timing belt looks pretty good" no matter how many miles are on it. My old belt also looked "pretty good" from the other side, but not the side that counts:

 

[shocowboy]

thanks for teh help i have gottem most all of the front riped apart so i can start pulling the pump off and its goign much easier than i thought it would, so i think i will def do teh timing belt to, anything else while im in there that is prob gogin to go on me soon?

 

[SHO--ripper]

You have the crank pully off already correct?
If you need any parts feel free to P.M me. I've got peformance and maintenance parts

 

[shocowboy]

i dont yet but i should by this evening not much time to spend on it all and i have anouther vehicle to drive in the mean time, i alread have the timing belt wpand teh cps, what do you have for preformance while im in there