Help me sort out my 3.2L SC project

[Super Matty P]

hahaha, I understand! this whole project isn't going to be cheap but it is suprisingly cheaper than just rebuilding the rotary motor that was in the car originally and would only yield about 220whp NA..with almost no torque.

 

[SHO Dude]

Stock 3.2 with 9psi of boost should be in the 450hp range. Jason's car puts 330hp to the tires...thru our automatic. It was enough to shatter the converter so now there's a nice purple converter in place of the old unit. Incidentally, we went back thru the tranny and with 20,000 miles of pretty hard driving, there was virtually no wear to the internals. I think we replace two FWD frictions plates because of a couple of hot spots. Pretty good overall.

Also, this car has 50lb/hr MSD injectors and is just about out of fuel. At 7000rpm, the injectors are maxed out at 80% duty cycle. I have a set of 48lb/hr injectors in Tyler's car so we'll see how much it makes. My car is a Bone Stock '89 that put 325hp to the tires. It has 42lb/hr injectors and is all done by 6800rpm.

FWIW, we just did an '06 Mustang GT with a Saleen blower. Really nice setup. With 39lb/hr injectors, a Ford GT (Supercar) MAF, it put down 375hp and it's out of fuel by 6800rpm as well.

 

[Super Matty P]

That's awesome news Doug. On a similar note my supercharged mazda hit 110% IDC yet never went lean at all on the dyno. I know I wasn't at the injectors power level limits either. If your MSD injectors were only at 80% IDC and going lean does that mean your fuel pump wasn't keeping up? I've currently got a 190lph walboro in the tank right now but Iplan on adding the larger pump to the rx7.

Sorting out the proper injectors is going to be critical for me. Also, I've noticed that Racer Walsh has a 95mm MAF upgrade for the lightnings. Would that be worthwhile or would a standard lincoln 80mm be better. The 95mm MAF was only $225.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

I wish someone had access to a standard 5.0 so I can measure the hieght from oil pan to IM.

Ive got one. Lemme know if you want some rough measurements.

 

[Super Matty P]

yeah, if you could get me an estimate on the height from the bottom of the oil pan to the top of the IM I'd appreciate it. I just want to see how far off I am.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Ill get it for you this weekend. Ive got to service the truck anyhow. My '94 F-150 has the 5.0 Being a truck, oil pan might be different. But Ill get you some rough numbers.

 

[Super Matty P]

awesome, thanks.

 

[Axianator]

Stock 3.2 with 9psi of boost should be in the 450hp range. Jason's car puts 330hp to the tires...thru our automatic. It was enough to shatter the converter so now there's a nice purple converter in place of the old unit. Incidentally, we went back thru the tranny and with 20,000 miles of pretty hard driving, there was virtually no wear to the internals. I think we replace two FWD frictions plates because of a couple of hot spots. Pretty good overall.

Out of curiosity, Doug, has Jason taken possession of his '93 ATX or does it still reside at your shop?

Also, this car has 50lb/hr MSD injectors and is just about out of fuel. At 7000rpm, the injectors are maxed out at 80% duty cycle. I have a set of 48lb/hr injectors in Tyler's car so we'll see how much it makes. My car is a Bone Stock '89 that put 325hp to the tires. It has 42lb/hr injectors and is all done by 6800rpm.

FWIW, a set of properly-calibrated (and properly-tuned) 50lb/hr injectors should not "max out" with only 9psi of manifold pressure and the necessary fuel system modifications (the same can also be said for your 42lb/hr injectors at only 325whp). If either set of these injectors are truly reaching their flow limit at the given HP rating, then you have some areas of your setup that need addressing.

 

[RJ-92]

I wonder what type of duty cycle my stock injectors are running at 245 WHP NA and 315 WHP spraying?

As far as the hight of the engine, I remember it being quite high as much as 28" not sure on exact measurements, but it is ~ 4-5" higher than an LS1. I do recall reading an article of a swap in a 2nd gen RX7 and noticed that the oil pan was chopped (shortened) to lower the over all hight of the engine a few inches to allow it to fit.

 

[yamahaSHO]

FWIW, a set of properly-calibrated (and properly-tuned) 50lb/hr injectors should not "max out" with only 9psi of manifold pressure and the necessary fuel system modifications (the same can also be said for your 42lb/hr injectors at only 325whp). If either set of these injectors are truly reaching their flow limit at the given HP rating, then you have some areas of your setup that need addressing.

Agreed. I have 44lb/hr injector and did not max them out at 11 PSI at 900 ft above sea level.

 

[Axianator]

I wonder what type of duty cycle my stock injectors are running at 245 WHP NA and 315 WHP spraying?

With all of your mods, I think it's time you hook up a TwEECer RT or SnEEC datalogger and find out!

Agreed. I have 44lb/hr injector and did not max them out at 11 PSI at 900 ft above sea level.

Yeah, but we all know how your setup has been "fokkerized" ...

 

[Super Matty P]

Hey guys, you've all been so helpful so far. Continue to be so.

I'm going to buy the largest injectors possible just to give me more room to grow but I'm wondering if there is a point where MAF size becomes overkill? I've found a modifed 95mm MAF for the Lightnings for $200-ish. I figured that would be great but the TB size would be the biggest bottleneck in the system. Is it worth it to have a MAF larger than your TB? 80mm MAF and a 65mm TB would the MAF be worth it if I upgrade TB's as well?

p.s. Did I mention I now live an hour away from TedB.?? I'm hoping to get a regular chip for my daily and then possibly some tuning on the tweecer from him also.

 

[yamahaSHO]

MAF and a 65mm TB would the MAF be worth it if I upgrade TB's as well?

There's not too much you can do with the TB. If the MAF is a draw-thru, you'll want a large size so it doesn't have any restriction. As long as it is an adequate size and capable of measuring enough air, you'll be fine with what ever you choose. If you have the TB on the pressure side, then opening it up isn't going to give a great deal of gain.

p.s. Did I mention I now live an hour away from TedB.?? I'm hoping to get a regular chip for my daily and then possibly some tuning on the tweecer from him also.

Yes you did, however, I believe it will be MUCH better to learn how to tune yourself. I haven't been too impressed by any of the LPM programs.

 

[Super Matty P]

do you think 80mm is plenty big enough for a draw through system? Texantony seems to have the fastest SC around. Any idea what he's running?

Supposedly the 95mm MAF is for 500+whp Lightnings. Just switching it out on a lightning was supposed to yield 30whp.

 

[SHO Dude]

I pegged an 80mm MAF at 6800rpm. Also out of fuel, 42lb/hr Lightning injecotrs.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Was that a Lightning or Lincoln 80mm MAF? The Lincoln has already been proven to be inadequate of measuring enough air for boost. As far as maxing your injectors, I think you may have another issue if the car is at 400 crank hp.

 

[Super Matty P]

elaborate YamahaSHO.... 44#'s not big enough for 400whp?

 

[yamahaSHO]

Theoretically, lets look at it this way (it can be done)...

NA recommendation
(44lbs / .45) x 6 = 586.7 (max) ---- 586.7 x .7 = 411hp

Boosted recommendation
(44lbs / .55) x 6 = 480 (max) ---- 480 x .7 = 336hp

These are just the numbers using stock fuel pressure. Like I say above, it can be done. It all depends on how you want to run the car. However, at 400bhp, 42lbs injectors on a 6 cylinder motor should not be maxed out.

 

[Super Matty P]

What injectors are thes eguys using that are making 450Whp, not bhp?? I'm planning on pushing my blower up there a bit and want to make sure I'll have the fuel to back it up. I've already got a 255lph pump and can get a rrfpr no problem.

44#'s seem to be the largest anyone mentions.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Panama Pat is running 48 lb/hr injectors. His 445whp run was with full timing, water injection, race fuel, and lots of knock. His race car is running the SHO Shop hacked up injectors which, from what I've heard, flow 50+ lb/hr.

twr is also running 48 lb/hr injectors in his boosted SHO.

I believe many of the higher hp SHO's are running 48 lb/hr injectors. That seemed to be the norm. When I bought my 44 lb/hr injectors over a year ago, I didn't think anyone was really using them. Since I'll be upping the power in my build and the new Accel injectors are no good to us, I am going to boost the fuel pressure and call it good.

Before I found out the new Accel's won't work, I was going to go higher than 48 lb/hr. You'll likely be fine with 48 lb/hr injectors.