Head gasket / cleaning..

[Eric VerValin]

Ok, so I got my heads off, the motor is down to the block, my new one is 1/2 built, ready for the heads. Being how "funny" these things are, how should I go about removing the old gasket material. Maybe some scotchbrite pads, and gasket remover? The old stuff is on there pretty good, and berrymans isn't quite doing it the way I would like to see it. The area around the cylinders are cleaning up pretty well, its just the areas around the coolant, and oil passages that are pretty 'sticky'. I'm tempted to take them to the machine shop here in town, and maybe have a valve job done, (3 angle) But I've heard a lot of funny things. My friend who is a diesel mechanic, says from what he knows, they will just take all my caps, shims and everything and put them in a bag, clean the heads, then put them all back together.

I would like each valve back in its rightful place, but I can't be certian that they would do that. What they say, and what they do, are 2 different things. She ran very well I always thought before, and I dont think I have any funny issues with them, and maybe they dont need the valve job, but after doing all this work, I'd hate to waste my time. I plan on adjusting the valves after I run it for a few miles, (10-100 ? ) and wonderd if I clean they by hand, then do that, if I should be 'ok' .

I'm not building a race car here, just something I can drive for another 180,000 miles. I'm whipped now.. gotta get some sleep so I can watch the Colts lose tommorow.. oops, today..

 

[thecrew2999]

well since the heads are coming off getting them "tanked" is the word they use at machine shops and make sure you let them know what the heads are so they dont try and dip them in something thats not ment for aluminum.

but if you dont just use a gasket scraper since thats what they are ment for. try and not get anything in the coolant passages since it will just be buildup and might clog something.

use a shop vac to suck of the extra fine crap sittin on the pistons and such.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well, these heads are going on a NEW block, not my old one. So I only have to do 1/2 the cleaning. And if I have them tanked, can they do it with everything in place, or will they have to dissasemble them? I guess someone taking my them apart makes me nervous, because if they don't put everything back in place where they came from, then I will more than likley be out of spec for sure, more so than it is now, if its much at all.

An actual gasket scraper huh, didnt know they made those.. guess I'm goin to look for them at Napa when I go for the hoses I need to get. Some of them are so 'used' they broke in half.

 

[AREA 91]

Be VERY careful when cleaning the head gasket surface of the heads. After all, they are aluminum. I work very slowly with a razor blade at a flat angle, and finish up with a scotch brite pad.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well, I was almost using a razor, I do it usually when cleaning off other stuff, but the aluminum made me nervous, its weird what was left behind from the head gaskets. Even bumps all over.. I'm sure someone has seen it before.. just wasnt sure if there was something that would help to dissolve them so I wouldnt have to do so much scraping.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Blue Roloc.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Cool man, I did notice that only O'Riley carries them, but I did also notice they have different ones. Medium, coarse.. ? any specific one ?



edit : ok.. nevermind.. looked on 3m's site, and noticed the color is the very fine... couldnt find any pictures on O'Riely's site.. thanks man!

 

[Paul]

Careful with a rotory tool now. While the graphite material stuck to the head is of a inconsistant thickness. Aluminum head material can wear away unevenly leaving voids in the flatness of the head. It will work great on the iron block except for the mess. Also, the coolant ports may be pitted badly cause no one changes there coolant for 100,000mi. I"d say resurface.

 

[roswell998]

From your comments regarding getting all shims back where they came from if a machine shop removed them and the valves brings up the question..........??????

Did you measure the gap on all of the valves to determine if they are definitely within spec right now?

Because if you didn't, NOW is definitely the time to measure and make those adjustments if needed. There are numerous threads regarding the proper procedure, gap values and places you can "rent" a complete kit from which should include all shim sizes that you might need.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well, they werent that far out of spec the last time I drove the car, its been over a year that its sat undriven, and since I'm pulling them off of one block, and slapping them onto another, I figured the measurements would probally change a bit, so I want to get it somewhat broken in, before I do any final adjustments.

If I drop off my heads at a shop, they said that after grinding the valve seating surface, my valves will essentially be a hair longer, and they would grind the tops down to bring them back to spec. But, after a few miles, from what I have read, they will change a little, so that is why I want to do them, ON the car, AFTER the breakin. Pulling the intake is no big deal, I've done it too many times already, and can probally do it in my sleep.. lol

 

[Paul]

The heads can generally get by with a disassembly & cleaning & lapping. Every individual part must return to its original position reverse of the disassembly. I get this feeling you have no business taking this engine apart. You are asking way too many questions that basic common proceedures that your prior research would of answered. You can't take this motor apart under estimating the tools needed & labor involved. There is a reason why this head job is worth $4000.

 

[roswell998]

Only takes a few minutes to measure all the gaps & compare to spec. Also, I was assuming from your posts that you were not going to have the valves ground.

Bottom line...........reground or not, I'd check gaps and reshim if necessary now. Breakin won't have any effect on the gap unless you have them reground and even then probably nothing significant. After all, the original engine had freshly ground valves & shims without any need to recheck valve gap after breakin.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well, I'm not sure if I wanna have them ground or not. They said 250, for complete degreasing, 3 angle grind, then they would grind the valves back to spec, not counting any seals. I'm sure they could just clean the heads for a lot less, but I guess i'm just undecided with what I wanna do, or should do, and if grinding the valves is going to be 'worth it' . money is kinda tight now, so any money I can save would be great.

 

[pjtoledo]

........ If I drop off my heads at a shop, they said that after grinding the valve seating surface, my valves will essentially be a hair longer, and they would grind the tops down to bring them back to spec. ......

Don't let them grind the stems to shorten the valves, thats what the shims are for.

Perry

 

[socialdeviat]

Agreed. (You don't need to get the heads reground or the valves for that matter are within Factory Spec. I take it you have a Dial caliper, or Micrometers? If so, do you have a FORD Service Manual for your specific year,make, model?

They will have ALL the tolerances required to tell you whether or not the valve seats need to be reground, etc etc. Its more thorough and will save you in the long run since you wont have to fix EVERYTHING just what needs to be fixed. A good valve will still work, A 3 angle valve job isn't necessary if you port them yourself. When they do the valve job, your supposed to have an Interference fit, which over the break in period will basically be a 45* cut valve seat with 47* ground valve face. When you run your motor this slowly wears into each other, making your valves seal better. This is why breakin is Crucial.

And yes Don't let them grind the stems too much, it is done and it doesn't cause any problems, but again Factory spec is where you can go, NO FURTHER.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Sounds like I'll clean them up myself, if they look a little funny still, then I'll probally get them tanked, but no more, and do the adjusting myself. Its just a pain the way the old gasket crap is on there.. after baking for 189,000 miles, its on there pretty good.. I've been carefully scraping what I can with new razor blades, but it sure does take a while.. After that, I'm going to find someone here in town that have those roloc disc's that Mr anon was talking about. I'm assuming I'll just put those in a die grinder and let er rip.

 

[roswell998]

Assuming the valves/seats are ok now, I'd recommend getting some valve grinding compound and one of those wooden dowel type tools with suction cups on the ends and lapping in all of the valves. This cleans them up and you can grind a little, remove the valve and see if the lapping goes all the way around both the seat and the valve, put it back in etc. etc.

Also, I'd put in new valve stem seals after the lapping is completed and the head is sterile clean. Then I'd rent a shim kit and set all clearances on the middle to high side because if there is any wear during breakin the valve will seat "deeper" and thus the clearance will decrease.

You should be good to go for another 100-200k miles! Just be patient!

IMPORTANT.......when all the valves, springs, cups, shims etc. are removed, put them in small zip lock bags with a label inside. Do not mix up any of the parts.

That's my $.02 worth.

 

[Eric VerValin]

See.. the mixing up the parts is why I dont want anyone else to do it. I'm afraid they'll just toss all that aside and not get out 24 seperate bags.. Ummm ok, help me out here.. lapping? I dont know what that is.. lol sorry. is that someone I put the compound on? The rest of that all makes sence to me tho. Sounds like a good idea.. I'll be cleaning them up today, and it will probally take me a while... Thanks !

 

[Eric VerValin]

I did get some of that compound... Just got back from the store..

 

[Paul]

Definetly replace the seals. They cross with a toyota part number. All of them. Follow the correct proceedure for installation.