Gauging interest and specs for turbo kit.

[SHOGUN R]

I am in no way saying to use the STS system they want way too much money
but to use the idea

The Turbo I got I have $500 and it is fresh and should be good for 500 HP
the Holset HX 35 is being used on the Ford 2.3 and makeing 400 HP to the wheels that is why I am running the 35/40 bigger compressor wheel

On a set up like this somone could set it up to run a Holset whtch are cheap
supply all other componets less Turbo and I beleave it could be done for less then 2K depending on the tunning issue

As for lag on the holset a 2.3L is under boost @ 2.5K and 30 Lb at 3K so on a SHO the exhaust houseing on the turbo would need to be bigger but you could be on boost a 2K on a SHO

http://www.ststurbo.com/sema_videos Check this out

I am not trying to take away from anyones idea just trying to go fast cheap
because I need new diff anyway to make use of the power

I can save or someone else save on a Turbo system it would happen faster and with a cheap system you would have more sales just a thought

 

[munkee]

Hold up a second here. There are some inherent flaws with this STS system. First, a turbo works best when it has hot exhaust to spin it due to thermal expansion. The colder the exhaust is, the less energy it has to spin the turbine. Your going to need a pretty small turbo to be able to get any kind of boost out of it that far back. Which in turn means it won't produce as much boost, or more correctly, won't flow much air(keep in mind that the sho flows 300cfm by 6000 rpms or 22 lbs/min). Then you have to shove that air through a 12 foot tube to the intake. If you sized the turbo correctly, (which will be a little harder than sizing one for a typical application) you might end up with a decent amount of low boost. Now, the only thing the sts type kit doesn't have that mine might is an intercooler. You still have to have turbo, wastegate, bov, complicated piping, CAI, injectors, MAF upgrade, and engine management. So your not saving anything by going the sts route. Plus your turbo system will be dangerously exposed to road debris etc. and there is an increased chance of sucking dirt into the intake tract from a bad tubing joint. Just out of curiousity, how much would you pay for a bolt on turbo system?

 

[SHOGUN R]

Hold up a second here. There are some inherent flaws with this STS system. First, a turbo works best when it has hot exhaust to spin it due to thermal expansion. The colder the exhaust is, the less energy it has to spin the turbine. Your going to need a pretty small turbo to be able to get any kind of boost out of it that far back. Which in turn means it won't produce as much boost, or more correctly, won't flow much air(keep in mind that the sho flows 300cfm by 6000 rpms or 22 lbs/min). Then you have to shove that air through a 12 foot tube to the intake. If you sized the turbo correctly, (which will be a little harder than sizing one for a typical application) you might end up with a decent amount of low boost. Now, the only thing the sts type kit doesn't have that mine might is an intercooler. You still have to have turbo, wastegate, bov, complicated piping, CAI, injectors, MAF upgrade, and engine management. So your not saving anything by going the sts route. Plus your turbo system will be dangerously exposed to road debris etc. and there is an increased chance of sucking dirt into the intake tract from a bad tubing joint. Just out of curiousity, how much would you pay for a bolt on turbo system?

I am not trying to take away from anyone here I Just thought it might be a good idea

I would pay less then 2K without Turbo

Because I will have mine done for less then 1.5K but I am making parts myself

The turbo I am going to use is a Holset Hx 35 with a HX 40 compressor wheel
now a stock holset Hx 35 will flow 52 lb/min max more then enough for me
and for less then $500 new on E-bay is not bad or use $100-200

So I am going to run the Turbo rear mount and I will be able to remove it and smog it with little work just like the STS system only cheaper as in cost

I dont want to start relocating parts under the hood if all possible we all know what a pain it is to work on a SHO and there is all ready too much stuff under the hood as it is

Now the STS is not the best there are problems like you stated in some places

But if I could get more power 50-100HP in a weekend without tearing my car a part except the intake and injectors then I am all for it

Now I was just saying for a stock motor that may be the way to go and if you could do it less turbo for 2K "tubeing/flanges oil tank fuel management ect" talking less then 8LB of boost on a stock motor I think it would sell

Now if this has made anyone mad I am sorry but I am talking about a stock SHO !

Now on a Race SHO Sky is the limit $$$$$

 

[SHOblime]

\ Now, the only thing the sts type kit doesn't have that mine might is an intercooler.

I am in no way defending the STS system, I think they only thing they are compressing is laughing gas, because their idea is just silly...BUT they claim they don't need an intercooler due to the length of the intake piping, kind of makes sense. In Turbo mag, they claimed an intercooler made little/no difference in temps, that includes an "inline" cooler or finned/ribbed piping.

 

[SHOguy 92]

If you people don't believe the STS system works go to www.ls1.com and check with those guys. Some of them are running T-76 turbos way out back and thats a huge turbo. Don't ask me how it works, ask them do a search on their forum. All I know is there is a guy on that forum with a 5.3L Z71 Silverado running high 12's with a stock truck and a sts turbo system. And lots of the LS1 guy down in low 13's high 12's too, so it does work, and they also offer an inline intercooler like what arkansho is running on his boosted gen 3.

 

[somedude_001]

its been a while is there any new news on this?

 

[munkee]

Unfortunately, not really. I've worked out some of the y-pipe kinks and am looking for a place that will copy it with mandrel bends for the kind of money I have to spend. Other than that I am waiting on tax returns or christmas donations to purchase the missing pieces to the puzzle. I may not have a running prototype until August, but that could just be the pessimistic side of me talking. I may have some fitment pictures to post just after the first of the year, hopefully with a mandrel bent pipe instead of my mock up piece.

 

[SonicRiot]

No offense, but a Turboed LS1 running a low 13 is not that impressive. Bolt-ons will acheive those numbers in 'Maros and 'Birds.

This thread is kinda stagnent most likely due to the $400 Eaton setup that's been revealed. That's some seriously cheap forced induction.

As for turbos, I believe that a turbo setup can be made cheap, but it wont be a kit that will be availible to everybody who wants it. The best way that I have in mind is a bi-turbo setup with log manifolds. Used or rebuilt turbos and a friend that's good at metal fabbing will be key. Lots of piping and little room, yes, but still possible with some ingenuity. Knock all you want, but a bi-turbo setup is possible for the cost of the Vortech kit. Maybe not a 100,000 mile setup, but I think speed, not longevity is the issue when dealing with this kind of power.

Turbo kits don't make sense to me. Match your own parts, fab your own pipes, save a pantload.

 

[munkee]

This thread is kinda stagnent most likely due to the $400 Eaton setup that's been revealed. That's some seriously cheap forced induction.

That and I haven't gotten a whole lot done in the last couple of months.

As for turbos, I believe that a turbo setup can be made cheap, but it wont be a kit that will be availible to everybody who wants it. The best way that I have in mind is a bi-turbo setup with log manifolds. Used or rebuilt turbos and a friend that's good at metal fabbing will be key. Lots of piping and little room, yes, but still possible with some ingenuity. Knock all you want, but a bi-turbo setup is possible for the cost of the Vortech kit.
Turbo kits don't make sense to me. Match your own parts, fab your own pipes, save a pantload.

It may not be impossible to go the twin turbo route with an mtx, but it's way beyond impractical. You simply do not have enough room between the engine and firewall for a turbo. You might stand a little better chance on an atx because the engine sits a little farther forward, but I don't know how the transmission might complicate matters there also.
Turbo kits make more sense to the guy that doesn't know much about matching the parts, or fabbing his own pieces.

Maybe not a 100,000 mile setup, but I think speed, not longevity is the issue when dealing with this kind of power.

Haven't you ever heard the phrase "anything worth doing is worth doing right or not at all"? You end up spending more in the long run by rebuilding all the time instead of maybe spending a little bit more and doing the job right to start with.

 

[Toolman]

Haven't you ever heard the phrase "anything worth doing is worth doing right or not at all"? You end up spending more in the long run by rebuilding all the time instead of maybe spending a little bit more and doing the job right to start with.

Words of wisdom right there.

 

[jsho]

I don't know much about turbos except from what I've been reading in the forum. If this kit can be made, I'll take one If it can be made for cheaper then a sc setup i'll be able to sooner.

 

[somedude_001]

you better believe that I'de be in for one.... well if I started saving now I could easly have the money by september (not kidding) but since there is no gauarntee that it will come out, i'll continue the devlopement of the headers that i'm working on (look for them in june)

 

[somedude_001]

oh I may know a company that will replicate the mandral bent stuff but i'm in NY. if you are interested I can get more information and possible some prices if you can attach some pics. pm me whenever.

 

[SHOguy 92]

No offense, but a Turboed LS1 running a low 13 is not that impressive. Bolt-ons will acheive those numbers in 'Maros and 'Birds.

Not saying I'm taking offense, but the reason lots of those cars are in the 12's would be, because of traction. Lots of those guys running a totally stock car, stock clutch and everything and almost 500whp. Take a look at the trap speeds and say you aren't impressed when they are well over 120mph. There is a guy running a watercooloed STS system on his 5.3L Vortec truck that is running 12.6 on 12PSI of boost, otherwise a totally stock truck

 

[somedude_001]

look if we just wanted to go fast we would buy a F-body or stang but we want to do it with 4 people and a tone of junk in the trunk... oh and style lots of style

 

[KYridgerunner]

Since we're on the subject of turbo's I'd like to get everyones opinion. First off let me say that some of what I have found on this thread has eliminated a few of my concerns with working up the turbo for my 90 MTX. I'm puttin a T3 off of a 85 1/2 Turbo Coupe in. with a scoop mounted to the hood and the intercooler mounted over the engine, do y'all think that the stock intercooler from a TC will be sufficent to cool everything down properly or should I reall just go with a larger intercooler?

 

[SHOGUN R]

Since we're on the subject of turbo's I'd like to get everyones opinion. First off let me say that some of what I have found on this thread has eliminated a few of my concerns with working up the turbo for my 90 MTX. I'm puttin a T3 off of a 85 1/2 Turbo Coupe in. with a scoop mounted to the hood and the intercooler mounted over the engine, do y'all think that the stock intercooler from a TC will be sufficent to cool everything down properly or should I reall just go with a larger intercooler?

sounds good but Get rid of the Turbocoupe intercooler it is too small

for about $200 bucks you can get a nice FMIC off e-bay and it will work alot better also I think you will find the T3 will be 2 small but it will allow you to get the car set up for a bigger turbo Like a Holset HX 35 witch will spool faster then the T3 you are installing and will suport up to 400 RWHP ant has the T3 ******

 

[1slickRED89]

but it will allow you to get the car set up for a bigger turbo Like a Holset HX 35

some of those holsets (HY? series) have variable area turbine nozzels :drool: to bad you can't buy them in america, yet. Corey

 

[munkee]

I've run across a few vatn's on ebay. I thought about picking one up but it was turbo only, no controller. I didn't figure I could afford the controller.
I like the idea of a hood scoop fed intercooler. It can be trickier than it sounds though. Just make sure that the air has a reasonably clear path through the engine compartment or you won't end up flowing any air through the cooler. You also need to make sure that wiring and electronics won't be damaged by moisture that may come in through the scoop.
Like Shogun said, the T3 will probably be too small. I would be curious about the actual numbers though(where boost begins and drops off, etc.) if you do use it.

 

[KYridgerunner]

The T3's wastegate off of the turbo coupe is set at 8.5 psi. I've seen where some people have put a T3/T4 hybrid on their SHO. Personally, 8.5 is quite enough for me. And as y'all said it will set me up for for a larger turbo in the future. As for protection of electronics from moisture with the top mounted intercooler, with a fabricated chute surrounding the intercooler and leading down or even 2 pieces of 3 inch piping leading down there should be sufficent air flow to keep things cool as well as protected. For my fuel feed I've got a Holley Blue fuel pump which has a flow of 110GPH which properly regulated should handle my 36# injectors just fine. Also with the intercooler, to keep the scoop size at a minimum and taking into account the height restriction between the hood and the Intake, I thought of maybe stacking 2 smaller intercoolers coming into the scoop assembly. I'd like to keep a smaller scoop on the car just to make sure it doesn't look too terrible by having a huge scoop. The huge scoop would be a definite giveaway that I got a lot more than stock sittin under my hood. Keep in mind this is a project being done on a limited budget so these mods will take some time. I'm going through and picking up a piece here and a piece there til I get all of the components and then its off to my buddy that does exausts to do all of the tubing fabrication. I'll be keeping in touch through posts as to how things are coming together. I appriciate any help or any ideas that are thrown my way.