Gauging interest and specs for turbo kit.

[JSMCPN]

For the kit: add one adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I would personally go with Stainless braided hose and AN fittings for the extra coolant, oil and fuel lines, as they are stronger and much safer than hose clamps and barbed fittings. Plus, AN fittings/SS lines are fun to assemble. A linear fuel regulator is needed as you must increase fuel PSI 1:1 for manifold PSI or you'll have problems.

Copper spark plugs are choice for turbo applications but that means you're going to be changing them a lot more. PP's will probably perform fine.

28x12x3 intercooler is way overkill for 6psi and our projected air volume. Smaller cores are much cheaper, and a used OEM unit from a different turbocharged car will suffice if the fins are straight. $40-100. The 1G DSM sidemount IC's are good for plenty more than you want to make. For 280 horse you'll need to flow about 8-10 lb/min of air, thats nothing. I am approaching 40 lb/min in Talon.

280 HP is a pretty small increase in power for all the work of a turbo kit. I promise you this project won't happen PROPERLY for under $4500. All that turbo and we're barely gonna wind it up? To get REAL gains from a turbo, 8.5:1 pistons would be sweet.

 

[SonicRiot]

That intercooler wouldn't be overkill... it isn't too large that you would lose intake velocity and there is room for increased boost.

Plus, we all know how SHO engines love cold air.


And if you are going to change the pistons, might as well throw longer rods in.

 

[munkee]

280 HP is a pretty small increase in power for all the work of a turbo kit. I promise you this project won't happen PROPERLY for under $4500. All that turbo and we're barely gonna wind it up? To get REAL gains from a turbo, 8.5:1 pistons would be sweet.

I think your missing my point. I am working on a 6 psi kit to avoid the additional costs associated with higher boost. Yes, 100 whp isn't a very big gain for the money, but I believe it is on par with other available mods for the sho. I quit working on my own 14psi project car to investigate building this kit because there seemed to be some interest in it. We are all aware of the gains of a moderate boost turbo with low cr pistons. Toolman is pushing really close to 450 ft. lbs of torque at the wheels if I'm not mistaken. Someone please correct me if I am, I don't recall the exact numbers.
I agree that the intercooler I currently have listed is a little large for these boost levels. I looked into using the 1G DSM intercooler but it would need a little more work than it's worth to adapt it to the kit. I would also like to use new products for the kit. If it was a one off design, I might have used it. I may still go with a smaller unit, I just put the largest size I could use for now. Do you have any suggestions besides the 1G? Just keep in mind that I would like it to be able to support future expansion, say up to 12 psi.
If I'm not mistaken, the stock fpr already increases fuel at a 1:1 rate. It just runs into overpressure problems with higher pressure and volume pumps. If your hp levels warrant the use of a fuel pump bigger than the 190 lph, then a FMU will probably be necessary too. I don't think it will be necessary for this kit, but testing will tell the best tale there.
I have some pictures of the y-pipe template and turbo location of my high boost project I could post later. I'll try to get pictures of the y-pipe, exhaust, etc. that will be used in the kit soon. I am working on test fitting right now.

 

[munkee]

[/IMG] This is the Y-pipe template from my high boost project. The pipe going up to the turbo is a few inches further down than this and the wastegate will come off of the bend, instead of that short piece sticking out. The down pipe (not shown) is the hardest part so far, because of clearance issues. Otherwise, things have been pretty easy to make.

[/IMG] This is a shot from the front of the motor that shows location of the 62-1 turbo. The turbo for the 6psi kit will be farther to the right so you don't have to modify the t-stat spout or move the coil pack.

[/IMG] Here's one from the top. The bracket is just there to hold the turbo in place for fabrication.
Well there it is, hopefully I can get back to work on it by springtime. I should have some pics of the kit piping in a couple of weeks.

 

[AREA 91]

 

[JSMCPN]

That intercooler wouldn't be overkill... it isn't too large that you would lose intake velocity and there is room for increased boost.

Plus, we all know how SHO engines love cold air.


And if you are going to change the pistons, might as well throw longer rods in.

Even with increased boost on the SHO, that IC is way overkill. A 28x12x3" intercooler is good for around 1300 CFM airflow, which is good for 750-900 horsepower. There is ZERO reason to use an intercooler this large.

 

[JSMCPN]

Jeez! That turbo is huge. How much did that cost? It's much bigger than my L1R ballbearing on the Talon, so prolly overkill too

Intercooler need not be larger than 18x6x3". My friend has one thats 18x6x3.5 and it flows 1080 CFM.

How about THIS for an intercooler? 30x12x6" - I want to see one that big actually used for something.
http://www.bellintercoolers.com/Pages/core.asp?action=Cat_detail&u_item=6

 

[munkee]

Yeah it's a little big. I picked it up for $650.00. I plan on running 500 hp or better with that, but that's still a ways off. The 60-1 HI-FI is a little smaller. The 18x12x3 is a little closer to what we'll end up with. I've found a couple that are close to that, I am going to make some cardboard mockups to figure out the easiest way to mount it without blocking off too much radiator. I may just have a custom unit made, which might cost a little more but then it will be exactly how I want it.

How about THIS for an intercooler? 30x12x6" - I want to see one that big actually used for something

Holy crap, you'd have to be going 100mph to push air through a core that thick! Thanks for the link btw.

 

[SHO Nick]

<---- Will but kit if affordable(In SHO Aftermarket Terms), and is basically a complete...no having to get parts from everywhere else to make it work Kit...

Ill just be saving for the kit, and putting in my Cams in the meantime..

 

[NJSHO]

I would get rid of the clutch from the kit. This is something that people can get readily and would probably like to choose themselves. For the kit to be affordable it should contain just what you need to get it up and running (running well), then you can decide how fancy you want to get. Just my $.02

 

[MySHOcanGo]

Good work so far munkee!!! Much props..... If the kit (complete can be made for ~$4500 , minus what ever carry over parts(i.e, MAf, tweecer, udp's, etc.) already in possesion, plus make the kit easily up'd to 12+ PSI I'd be in forsure.

I might be even be interested in/capable of kicking down some R&D capital.

 

[SHOblime]

toolmans turbo is where the stock airbox would go... runs off the front 3 cylinders....

This is probably a stupid question...I am generally very knowledgeable with turbos and turbo setups, but I've always wondered if you run a turbo off only some of the cylinders, wouldn't that A) cause some sort of exhaust flow imbalance, and 2) increase spool-up time significantly? (based on boost level)


Anyone?

 

[2L8V8_4sho]

Munkee, you're doing a great job. Keep up with the good work and if the turbo kit for this car is affordable (and for that matter even comes out!) then the supercharger guys are gonna have to watch their backs! Just kidding guys. Awesome job man.

 

[WesternMassSHO]

I did not read this entire thread, but alot of people are pointing out that you will need many MANY other misc. parts for a turbo kit to be effective; if not just including them with the kit.

Thing is, if a SHO owner is even THINKING about a Turbo, they *should* already have all of these other parts, including:

Quaife
>190lph FP
>36# Injectors
Proper ECU Tuning (TwEECer / Ted B. LPM)
Proper Air Intake (MAF, TB, BBB, EH, etc.)
Proper Suspension
Proper Braking power
Proper Exhaust

etc.etc.etc.


The Turbo kit just needs exactly that, what's in the kit. The turbo, piping, intercooler, BOV, wastegate...

Yes a turbo-ed SHO would need alot to make the turbo work effectively without destroying the rest of the car. But those enthusiusts that want a turbo should already have that kind of car

Those who don't have that car but want a turbo should rethink thier priorties; because IMO turbo-ing a stock SHO, or even lightly modified SHO, is *NOT* going to work. Stock or lightly modified SHO's deserve a 50 shot of NOS, not a Turbocharger.

 

[luigisho]

This is probably a stupid question...I am generally very knowledgeable with turbos and turbo setups, but I've always wondered if you run a turbo off only some of the cylinders, wouldn't that A) cause some sort of exhaust flow imbalance, and 2) increase spool-up time significantly? (based on boost level)


Anyone?

Yes. That (3 banks) is an incorrect assertion and the turbo runs off both banks of cylinders.


Chris, Great stuff. I like the pics and look foreward to more as things move along.

 

[MotorMouth]

Just to interject. The TO4B frame is an old technology. Why not look into something more up to date. The Garrett GT series turbos are amazing (but granted a bit more expensive) or possibly a T3/T4 hybrid set up. Also, at only 6 psi for base boost the 60-1 trim wheel you are not really using that particular wheel to it's potential. That and the Turbonetics TO4 chassis in that group use either a "P" trim or an "O" trim exhaust wheel. Both I think are way to big for the boost being proposed along with the flow of the motor even with a smaller exhaust housing like the .58 a/r mentioned in a previous post. That large of a wheel will not be such a huge issue for the stick cars but the automatic cars you will be looking at allot of lag due to the stall rpm's on the stock converter.

Also, to help keep the cost of the kit down going with an internally gated turbo would probably the best course. Most current internal set-ups are very efficient and at only the 6 to 9 psi proposed it would work very well. Yes, an external is the optimal way to go but not needed in this case. Just for reference, the GN guys are using PTE turbo's with internally gated exhaust sides are running huge boost level's (20psi plus) with excellent boost control.

Just food for thought.....

Brian

 

[munkee]

Hmm. A GT25 is one of the turbos I was looking at a while ago. I don't remember if I ever found a compressor map for it though, and I can't seem to find one now. Anyone run across one on the web lately? Also, as you said, the garret turbo is a bit more expensive. I am designing the kit to be used for the MTX at this point. If the MTX design is successful, then I will look into adapting it to an ATX. I know it took me forever to respond but I would still apreciate any more input. Thanks, Chris.

 

[trueSHO]

Seems like people take your ideas and totally crush them. I would like to see it done (successfully). When I see that it can be done, I'm gonna just do it before telling anyone so they can't try to crush my dream of a turbo SHO. Yea it will be a heck of a project, but it CAN be done

 

[SHOGUN R]

what about this this is the way I am going to go http://www.ststurbo.com/acura___honda about it makes sence and I am going to use a holset HX 35/40 and a intercooler and it would be a easer way to do it and you could remove it with not a lot of problem

what do you think ?

 

[SHOwn the way]

What about lag and sound on that STS set up?