Just got off the phone with ford. they asked the standard questions, did you do regular oil changes, did you drive after you noticed the problem, have you modified it in any way. The lady was looking for some hints to possible make it seem my fault, which there is none. At the end she basicly said that she is escalating this to the customer care solutions team, and that they will get back to me in two days, but with it being thursday, then more than likely they will call on Monday. So its a waiting game now.
Eccoboom!
- Thread starter Sy1100
- Start date
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Unknown_Driver
V6TwinTurboAWD
i think this is partly to blame, fluctuations in gas quality
i swear people with ecoboost engine problems seem to run lower grade fuel
check this thread out
his engine blew and he fluctuated his fuel quality
http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=110539&highlight=octane&page=2
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hawkeye18
Sorta cares
I don't understand why somebody with a twin turbo engine would think it's ok to run anything less than 91. I mean, I know full well Ford said it's fine to run on 87, but I personally wouldn't believe them for a second. ****, I have a naturally aspirated engine and I only run 93 in it. Mostly since I have a 93 octane tune... but I'd still run 93 anyway even if I didn't. Anything less than 91 is a disservice to the engine.
Ford said it's fine, and they are the ones who built the car, so I would assume 87 is just fine.
NotSoSlowSHO
Gas is $$ WALK!
I wouldnt place any bets on the low octane gas being suspect.
Its a computer controlled engine.
A failure from running too low an octane, regardless of MFG spec is not an operator error. Nor is it a mechanical problem.
It is a tuning problem.
But again, I dont see this failure being direct a result of low octane fuel.
Its a computer controlled engine.
A failure from running too low an octane, regardless of MFG spec is not an operator error. Nor is it a mechanical problem.
It is a tuning problem.
But again, I dont see this failure being direct a result of low octane fuel.
Fordtaurussho
New Member
we had a 2010 sho as a dealer demo at my work (ford dealer in canada), customer test drove it over night came back with a misfire, customer put regular fuel in it and obviously took it for a bag cause it blew the tip right off the end of the spark plug lol, but other than that we have never had any of our shos come in for anything other than oil changes, must have got a friday built car lol (no offense)
thebigjimsho
LSA = YUM
And I wouldn't flood my engine bay with blue wire loom...
steve142857
11's in '12 ; )
True, Ford has no interest to say 87 is fine if it's not, because, not only will they have to assume the warranty , but they cannot afford Ecobooms for their reputation. It's their new engine and if they start to blow out because of wrong recommended octane gas, imagine the effects on their sales (I am thinking mainly for the F150). And actually, those F150 with ecoboost are more susceptible to boom because of the level of work they are going to be asked from... So, they'd better revise their recommendation on octane soon, if not many F150 will boom! Actually, I think even with 93 we will see many F150 engine with issues because of the sustained effort demanded and turbos overheating... We'll see, but hopefully it won't affect reputation of the engine for our cars...
itguy08
Member
Ford says 87 is fine. They are the ones that beat this engine to **** and back. If they say 87 is fine than it is. In theory the DI engine puts the fuel in there right before the spark plug fires so there should be little to no detonation. That's the reason you use high octane - detonation resistance.
Your engine doesn't care about the octane. All it cares about is clean fuel (the fuel filters take care of that) and no knocking. Ford has sensors in place (knock) to detect knock and adjust accordingly.
I typically run the cheapest 87 I can find. Mostly from BJ's or Costco. No issues at all. She runs fine, pulls strong and idles smoothly. I tried some fillups with premium (about a month's worth) and didn't notice any increase in performance. MPG went up slightly but not enough to offset the increased cost.
I think we have a couple isolated cases of engines grenading. Happens to them all (that's what the warranty is for). When I got my G35 in 04 there were a couple VQ Booms in the G35 forums as well....
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EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
There are so many possible reasons for this EcoBOOM.... that all of this is just speculation. If it turns out that a burned piston is the result, then the cause would likely be a lean condition. Plugs, injectors, gas, driving style , dealer repair issues etc...?????????
Perhaps it was bad gas. For instance, I filled up both my Sea Doo's with 89 - 10% ethanol gas before launch. Out on the lake, both started to run poorly. We replaced the plugs in both. The 4 stroke Supercharged one, immediately ran O.K. The 2-stroke injected one immediately fouled the new plugs and wouldn't even start. After 2 cans of fuel stablizer and a 3rd set of plugs, presto it ran just fine. All I'm saying is that you never know if the gas you get is really what they claim it is.
Here in IA, we will find out on the EB 150 pretty quickly, as dealer sales are over 50% pickups and the EB 150 is very popular. Cheapest fuel at most stations is 89 Octane, 10% Ethanol. Very little 91-92-93 octane in smaller towns.
Perhaps it was bad gas. For instance, I filled up both my Sea Doo's with 89 - 10% ethanol gas before launch. Out on the lake, both started to run poorly. We replaced the plugs in both. The 4 stroke Supercharged one, immediately ran O.K. The 2-stroke injected one immediately fouled the new plugs and wouldn't even start. After 2 cans of fuel stablizer and a 3rd set of plugs, presto it ran just fine. All I'm saying is that you never know if the gas you get is really what they claim it is.
Here in IA, we will find out on the EB 150 pretty quickly, as dealer sales are over 50% pickups and the EB 150 is very popular. Cheapest fuel at most stations is 89 Octane, 10% Ethanol. Very little 91-92-93 octane in smaller towns.
Unknown_Driver
V6TwinTurboAWD
those knock sensors can also be going crazy from the octane fluctuations
we datalogged gas quality between a pump that only pumps 94 octane and one that mixes between 87-89-91-94 and the mix pump was giving a lot more knock than normal in my WRX
the engine is still new and when they benchmark they only run from one fuel source and octane
positive not many engineers had a feeling Semi-Retiree Joe Blow GoldsteinBerg Sho owner was that much of cheap skate and wanted the cheapest gas possible for his twin turbo direct injection high compression engine making 365 horsepower to save 2 dollars
i'm guessing due to majority of age ownership some people here drive 15-20 miles extra just to find the cheapest gas only to burn what they saved driving for the low price gas
hawkeye18
Sorta cares
You show me an engine that exploded from blue wiring loom, and I'll call it touche.
itguy08
Member
Unless things have changed, knock sensors don't measure octane. They are microphones tuned to listen for the rattle and vibrations of a knocking engine. So they are reactionary in that they sense knock. They have no idea of the octane in the gas.
That is interesting but IIRC none of the WRX's are DI engines. DI engines are much less knock prone. I would think that gas station may have some mis-adjusted pumps.
For the EPA tests, yes. I'm sure for Ford's durability testing they would be utter idiots to not test on all sorts of gas in all sorts of conditions. Freezing, Death Valley in summer, WOT up a long hill on a 100 degree day, etc. I have faith that Ford beat the PI$$ out of the Ecoboost in testing.
positive not many engineers had a feeling Semi-Retiree Joe Blow GoldsteinBerg Sho owner was that much of cheap skate and wanted the cheapest gas possible for his twin turbo direct injection high compression engine making 365 horsepower to save 2 dollars
i'm guessing due to majority of age ownership some people here drive 15-20 miles extra just to find the cheapest gas only to burn what they saved driving for the low price gas
Nowhere near that age and I know enough about cars and gas to know on a stock car you use the cheapest gas the manufacturer requires. If you're running a tune you use what the tune requires. Other than that you won't benefit from higher octane. BJ's is within 3 miles of my house and can be on the way home.
Higher octane only means the gas won't explode before its time.... If anyone is interested, here's an interesting read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Pay note to the section "Effects of Octane"
If Ford didn't want 87 in these cars, they should have slapped "Premium Fuel Required" on it like many other cars. They didn't and Ford is the ones that say they will run on 87.
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HotRodKid
mmmmm ... turbo
he didnt claim that knock sensors measured octane, he just said that octane fluctuations can cause knock problems, and that might cause problems with the knock sensors / tune.
I recall maybe one instance of a broken piston on a Yamaha SHO V6 back in the day. At the time there were maybe 300 on SHOtimes (circa 1996) so 1 out of 300 . . . . long odds to an automaker.
Oh and blue wire loom just sounds very . . . . . tacky.
Oh and blue wire loom just sounds very . . . . . tacky.
hawkeye18
Sorta cares
I bet I could find something you like that I could call tacky.
It would be a bad tune if that's the case. A good tune would cut the timing quickly enough from the KS feedback until the knock was gone.
Unknown_Driver
V6TwinTurboAWD
i'm just gonna leave this stuff here so the people without the knowledge can understand what i'm talking about
http://www.tricktuners.com/detonation_explained.htm
http://engineguy.wordpress.com/2007...ore-than-if-you-used-premium-high-octane-gas/
not gonna waste my time arguing
http://www.tricktuners.com/detonation_explained.htm
http://engineguy.wordpress.com/2007...ore-than-if-you-used-premium-high-octane-gas/
not gonna waste my time arguing
itguy08
Member
I'm well aware of detonation, knocking, and all of that. I've driven cars that REQUIRE Premium. I've also driven cars that pinged badly on non premium. I also know it's very bad for the engine.
I'll part with this, directly from the 3rd printing of the 2010 Taurus Owner's manual, pg. 353 (Emphasis mine): You can view the manual at www.motorcraftservice.com
So, Ford the ones who made the engine, have a vested interest in longevity, etc. say the engine is designed to run on 87. Designed to run, not "can run" or "may run" or "should be used only emergencies". That means Ford is on the hook for it. I'll trust they beat the snot out of it on 87 and it will last a long time.
Do what you want - if you're comfortable with 93 that's fine. I'll stick with 87, pocket the difference and still have an engine in one piece at over 100k.
I'll part with this, directly from the 3rd printing of the 2010 Taurus Owner's manual, pg. 353 (Emphasis mine): You can view the manual at www.motorcraftservice.com
So, Ford the ones who made the engine, have a vested interest in longevity, etc. say the engine is designed to run on 87. Designed to run, not "can run" or "may run" or "should be used only emergencies". That means Ford is on the hook for it. I'll trust they beat the snot out of it on 87 and it will last a long time.
Do what you want - if you're comfortable with 93 that's fine. I'll stick with 87, pocket the difference and still have an engine in one piece at over 100k.
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