Driveline Problem for the experts

[Emerald93MTX]

Ok guys, I've had this problem for quite a while now and it's really starting to bother me; Every time I go from cruise to accelerate, the car kinda jerks. You can imagine how annoying this can be during traffic. Anyways, I have replaced my destroyed motor mounts with Shonut Reinforced mounts (tranny mount didn't look damaged), installed cup style Al SFBs, new TPR Moog endlinks, and even replaced my engine roll dampeners with some from another used sho. The motor mounts I installed seemed to lessen it a little and the torque is definitely being shoved to the ground now rather than making the engine rock, but the jerking is still there. The only things left that I can think might be the problem are tranny mount, swaybar bushings, tranny problem, or somewhere in the engine that I can't think of. I definitely think it is related to the transfer of power from the tranny to the wheels rather than an engine issue, but I'm leaving that option open. I have replaced the TPS sensor (adjusted to .97V), ECT sensor, cleaned MAF, cleaned K&N filter, and replaced IMRC. Oh, I can't imagine this is the problem, but I also installed a new 190lph Walbro fuel pump as well.

New water pump, new front crank seal, new plugs and wires, new front cam tensioner, new timing belt, new radiator, new intake manifold gaskets, new valve cover gaskets, etc. were all done about 10k miles ago.

One other thing is that when I had my clutch installed at 110k, the throwout bearing that came in the box with the Autozone clutch kit didn't fit and my mechanic (Vocational School teacher who doesn't make money on any of the work he does, other than being a teacher) said that the old one was fine and reinstalled that one. I know that my shifting has never really been the same since my old clutch started to go on me. When I bought the car, it shifted silky smooth, though I have never felt it that good since it disintegrated.

I try to keep the ATF fluid at proper level with a combination of 2 quarts Synchromesh and 1 quart Mobil 1 Synthetic, but I haven't checked it in a while. I don't think it would make a difference since it has this problem even when it is full.

I don't know of any other relevant info you guys may need off the top of my head, but let me know if I've left anything out. Help is always appreciated from all you guys on this forum.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[MelectroK]

cv joints

 

[Emerald93MTX]

cv joints

Ok, so I went and did a search on CV joints and I think you're right. Now, if I'm going to try and replace these myself, I'm definitely going to need a write-up. Shotimes didn't have one, so I'm asking you all for some help. Is there anyone out there who lives in Upstate South Carolina who has done this before? Thanks

Paul

 

[Brian Smith]

So easy. I just did mine this past week. There are posts on the forum giving the "write up" it really only involves loosening the hub nut, removing the pinch bolt that holds the ball joint from the bottom of the steering knuckle to the two bars underneath, then prying the two bars out: this will give you room to yank out the cv joints on each side. You can find instructions on autozone.com with pictures, but it gives you an extra step or two for the passenger side: You dont need to take off the half shaft that runs under the engine! It is held on to the cv shaft with only a circlip. Real easy replacement. I had the lurching you describe and the replacement pretty much took care of it. I did notice that on my drivers side the remanned cardone cv joints are already clicking in a menacing fashion, but...lifetime waranty, so if they start giving my any more problems I will get myself a new one. Do not be intimidated by an extremely easy job! I am sure a mechanic would try to hold you over the coals on this one, because i think this can be a much more difficult job on some cars. Good luck!

 

[Emerald93MTX]

I'm not one to be afraid of working on my car, it's just that I haven't messed with transmission work before. I mean, I did my whole front 60k myself, but I definitely don't have a 30mm deep well. Does that requre a 3/4" drive ratchet or can I use a 1/2"? If a 3/4" is required, then that just adds about 20-25 bucks for a new craftsman as well as about 10 bucks for a 30mm deep socket. Also, how much are those pinch bolts to replace. What is a circlip? Should I drain the MTX before I start? What other tools will I need? I've got a pretty extensive set of basic tools. Thanks again,

Paul

 

[Emerald93MTX]

One more thing, as I was reading about CV joint failures, I noticed that people referred to a clicking or some other sound when turning. I don't have this sound. Is it possible that they just need to be repacked with grease and new boots installed? Thanks,

Paul

 

[Brian Smith]

I got a 1/2 inch drive 30 mm at autozone for about 15 bucks. The remanned axles were 60 for one side and 90 for the other. I did not get the best possible deal. You might as well get remanned ones with a lifetime warranty, i would think repacking the joints is a real pain in the ***, but hey, to each his own. When you remove the driverside shaft some fluid will leak from your tranny. Surprisingly little fluid though. The passenger side will not leak as you will be removing this cv shaft from the jackshaft running under the motor rather than directly from the tranny. You can refill the lost fluid after you are done with the new install. Supposedly you are supposed to get new pinch bolts for the job, i dunno, i just reused mine. The cirlips just hold the cv shaft into the tranny or onto the jackshaft (depending on side) they are little circles that ride in a groove at the end of the shafts, they sort of "click" into place. You will know them when you see them. Very easy job and I am a mechanical noob. Seriously though, for reference, check out autozone.com. I was originally referred there from one of sdpatt's posts and i found it quite helpful. There is a decent amount of info available on the forum here if you search for it. sdpatt's writeup on his experience is an interesting read. Incidentally though, if you are not in an area with an O'reilleys autoparts store you will not be able to get the really great deal sdpatt got on his cv axels(they dont ship, i looked into it).

 

[masho95]

I'm not one to be afraid of working on my car, it's just that I haven't messed with transmission work before. I mean, I did my whole front 60k myself, but I definitely don't have a 30mm deep well. Does that requre a 3/4" drive ratchet or can I use a 1/2"? If a 3/4" is required, then that just adds about 20-25 bucks for a new craftsman as well as about 10 bucks for a 30mm deep socket. Also, how much are those pinch bolts to replace. What is a circlip? Should I drain the MTX before I start? What other tools will I need? I've got a pretty extensive set of basic tools. Thanks again,

Paul

Are you saying that you don't own a 3/4" wrench?? The 30mm will come in a 1/2" drive. The pinch bolts: $6.92, and the pinch bolt nuts: $6.58 both through www.shonutperformance.com The bolts and nuts come in a set of 2 which would be enough for both sides of the front. A circlip is a metal ring that isn't a complete circle that acts as a retainer for the axle inside the transmission. Yes you should drain the transmission fluid first, as if you remove the axles, tranny fluid will come out. The left hand side (driver side) axle will come out of the transmission with a quick jolt from a prybar, this will pull the circlip out of it's retaining spot inside the transmission. On the right hand side (passenger side) the axle is held in by the center mount bearing. There are two 10mm bolts that hold the center mount bearing in place. After removing that the axle will just slide right out of the transmission.

 

[Emerald93MTX]

I appreciate your help guys, maybe this won't be as difficult as I thought. Fortunately for me, I do have an O'Reillys near me and that will most likely be where I get them from. Do you know if they have the pinch bolts and nuts there as well? It takes me a few days when ordering from Shonut and if I'm going to go ahead with this, I want to get it done right away.

 

[Emerald93MTX]

Ok, so I want to make absolutely sure that the CV joints are my problem; how do I check them? I tried raising one side and turning the wheel by hand to see how much movement there was. They would turn quite a bit before the transmission stopped it. This may not be a good way to test it because it appeared to be moving at the tranny part and not between the tranny and wheel. Basically, it seems like the problem is in the tranny and not the halfshafts. Hopefully you guys can help me to figure this out. Thanks again.

 

[dvieyra]

not cv joints

YOur problem is definatly not the cv joints.When you placed mounts on your vehicle that dampened whatever problem you have. If your cv joints are bad there will be no doubt about it;they will click on turns and acceleration into corners.If they are really bad they will make the car shake like it is a big *****. This is caused by the knuckles of the shaft loosing the bearings inside and it trying to grab the inner area.Also if your boots are ripped apart that is a clear indicator of cv falure. It sounds to me like your car is surging off the go and you have a spark problem. Check your plugs and the wires to see if they have oil on them, if so the seals are bad. I had a regal once and it surged bad when I bought it. The wires and plugs were so bad the firing was inconsistant and hence the shudder. I dont know why people are telling you the cv joints are bad; in your post I did not see one indicator of the problem.
Also You did not clearly say if it does this surging while cruising at a constant speed or just from a stop. put the car into 1st and rock it back and forth to see how much the engine moves if it moves over 1 1/2 inches that could be a issue but seeing as though they were replaced this is unlikely.

 

[Emerald93MTX]

YOur problem is definatly not the cv joints.When you placed mounts on your vehicle that dampened whatever problem you have. If your cv joints are bad there will be no doubt about it;they will click on turns and acceleration into corners.If they are really bad they will make the car shake like it is a big *****. This is caused by the knuckles of the shaft loosing the bearings inside and it trying to grab the inner area.Also if your boots are ripped apart that is a clear indicator of cv falure. It sounds to me like your car is surging off the go and you have a spark problem. Check your plugs and the wires to see if they have oil on them, if so the seals are bad. I had a regal once and it surged bad when I bought it. The wires and plugs were so bad the firing was inconsistant and hence the shudder. I dont know why people are telling you the cv joints are bad; in your post I did not see one indicator of the problem.
Also You did not clearly say if it does this surging while cruising at a constant speed or just from a stop. put the car into 1st and rock it back and forth to see how much the engine moves if it moves over 1 1/2 inches that could be a issue but seeing as though they were replaced this is unlikely.

Sorry to contradict you, but I know that it's not the plugs and wires because, as I stated above, they are brand new Motorcraft wires and plugs and the wells are totally clean. On the other hand, the boots on my CV joints are still in good condition. There may not be any clicking in turns, but there is definitely loss of traction, though that could be due to an open differential. The other thing is, it's a very hard **** and not just a surge, which leads me to believe it is defintely in the driveline. It feels like I'm applying force from the engine and the engine starts to turn, but it doesn't contact the wheels quite yet, then BAM, it starts turning the wheels. When I release the gas, the engine backs off, but the wheels are still turning and BAM, the wheels start to slow with the engine. Does this make sense to you guys? It's like there's a gap in the teeth of the gears. Thanks.

 

[Emerald93MTX]

One more thing, I've done the engine and tranny mount check from SHOtimes.com after I replaced the front and rear mounts and the engine doesn't move at all. So I don't think it's anywhere inside the engine. If anything, it's either in the tranny or between the tranny and wheels (hence driveshafts). I'd hate to have it be in the tranny, but replacing driveshafts doesn't sound to happy to my wallet either. Oh, one more thing dvieyra, I did clearly state when this happens in the first line of my original post, "Every time I go from cruise to accelerate, the car kinda jerks."

 

[revhardSHO]

One more thing, I've done the engine and tranny mount check from SHOtimes.com after I replaced the front and rear mounts and the engine doesn't move at all. So I don't think it's anywhere inside the engine. If anything, it's either in the tranny or between the tranny and wheels (hence driveshafts). I'd hate to have it be in the tranny, but replacing driveshafts doesn't sound to happy to my wallet either. Oh, one more thing dvieyra, I did clearly state when this happens in the first line of my original post, "Every time I go from cruise to accelerate, the car kinda jerks."

I would definitly try new half shafts. The old 206K 89 feels the same way when I go from cruise to acceration, its very jerky and both MMs are nearly brand new. I think they run about $70.00 each at AZ.

 

[Emerald93MTX]

Thanks guys, I'll let you know when I get them done if they fix the problem.

 

[Brian Smith]

getting shafted

Hey Emerald mtx, I had EXACTLY the same symptoms you describe. I replaced my halfshafts and it went away...for a little while. One of the rebuilt halfshafts I put on is now clicking out the *** and I have the jerkiness back. As discussed in other posts, the quality of the rebuilds is suspect: fortunately they are lifetime warranty so I will just keep switching them out till i get a set that lasts. It sucks, i have to replace one of them again...not a big deal, but going and getting a replacement for my liftime warranty parts etc , its gonna eat up a whole day. But d*mn, when I first put those remans on, for a few days it felt supersmooth.

 

[Emerald93MTX]

Ok, so I changed the Halfshafts and it got rid of some of the jerking, especially all of the jerking that would occur when reversing......but it still jerks whenever I release the gas and accelerate again. When I had the front up on jack stands, I turned each wheel and looked for play before turning the shaft on the opposite side and there was still a small amount. Is it possible that the differential in the tranny is hurting? Did I not fill up the tranny with fluid all the way? I just can't figure out what else could be causing this jerking. There is still the tranny mount, but when I lifted the tranny with a floor jack, the metal didn't separate from the rubber. I'm really stumped here.

 

[CheckerSHO]

maybe check the tightness of the bolts that hold the motor mounts to the brackets? i had an issue with my bolts coming loose (and one falling out) even after re-torquing them once finally some loctite held them in there

 

[Emerald93MTX]

maybe check the tightness of the bolts that hold the motor mounts to the brackets? i had an issue with my bolts coming loose (and one falling out) even after re-torquing them once finally some loctite held them in there

well, when I had installed the motor mounts at 2 different times and so I had loosened all of the bolts that attatch the mounts to the subframe and the engine and then retightened them again incase the engine needed to settle correctly, but I wasn't exactly sure what order to tighten them in so I could have done it wrong, but all of the bolts are very tight. The thing is, there is still play in the driveline and the engine definitely doesn't move when I do the shotimes.com mount test.

 

[Emerald93MTX]

Any other thoughts guys?