Cut my Intrax springs

[FAST4DR]

Good or bad-- I did it. I didn't quite like the stance of the stock intrax. They definately lowered the car, but the front still looked high. I think the car was pretty even to the ground chassis wise, but now it will have a little nose down attitude. That is when I get it all back together.

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[yamahaSHO]

Will, did you do the front or both.... To get the stance correct, you are only supposed to do the front.

 

[FAST4DR]

Will, did you do the front or both.... To get the stance correct, you are only supposed to do the front.

Yeah, just the front. The back sits pretty nice. I guess eventually I would like to switch to coilovers of some kind. I am going to try this for a while. I am also installing a 24mm swaybar on the front instead of the 20.6(stock) that was on there. I know people say to leave the 20.6 because it won't lift the inside tire as much in hard turns, but I like the 24mm because it keeps the car flatter and allows the car to turn left/right quicker. IMHO.

I think with the quaife, it will be fine out of corners. I may even try disconnecting it and see what that does in an autocross. Although, I think the front end will be too floppy and the car will twist too much changing the camber on the wheels. That's where coilovers would be better, because I could get a stiffer spring and possibly take the front anti-roll bar off alltogether. I don't know, I'm not a suspension expert.

 

[yamahaSHO]

With the 24/26 combo and cut intrax springs, Terry(twr) is able to lift the front inside tire. Your Quaife will act as an open differential then and your turns will push on you. I would personally go with the 22/26 combo. Thats what I have and I have been told my car tracks better than the combo you are going to go with.(I have Eibach and Koni)

 

[FAST4DR]

With the 24/26 combo and cut intrax springs, Terry(twr) is able to lift the front inside tire. Your Quaife will act as an open differential then and your turns will push on you. I would personally go with the 22/26 combo. Thats what I have and I have been told my car tracks better than the combo you are going to go with.(I have Eibach and Koni)

So how's that gonna look? I'm gonna be on two wheels!!

 

[yamahaSHO]

Haha... I'd like to let you try out my combo... too bad you are too far. If you are ever out this way, I'll give you the keys

I actually used the gen 3 front sway bar for the collars. I have greasable(a must) poly up front and TPR in the rear. I know with some bigger wheels and Intrax I'd be able to turn even better, but I am really happy with the way my car handles for the road right now. Bareable street driving and fun on the turns.

 

[AutoSHO]

I did not like the way my car handled with the 24/26 combo - it pushed a fair amount, and it was extremely easy to lift the inside tire. Of course, this was on stock suspension otherwise. I second Jason's 22/26 recommendation. I have it and love it.

 

[twr]

I have to second the recommendation of the 22/26 swaybar combo. If I push my car hard through a corner, it will lift the inside front tire as Jason has already stated. I'm considering stepping down to the 22 front bar to help the problem.

 

[Dan H]

You could also go with a 24/29 combo to reduce any understeer.

 

[twr]

You could also go with a 24/29 combo to reduce any understeer.

Understeer is not the problem.. Lifting the inside tire is.

 

[FAST4DR]

Ok, now I'm afraid to try it. It's not easy to change so that's why I have to choose the right one, cause I'm not wrestling with it after I put the subframe back up. The 20.6/26 handles great, it just leans a little in the front and doesn't have a tight turn in. My 91 with a completely stock suspension has a better initial turn in feel to it with the 24/26.

Didn't the Ninja turtle cars have custom sway bars that were HUGE. Like 60 or 80 mm rear or something like that?

Will

 

[twr]

Will, Like I said I have to push my car hard to lift the inside tire in a corner.

 

[MySHOcanGo]

I reccomend the 20.6 sway bar in the front and getting a stiff linear spring setup. the majority of the roll you feel is the initial softness of the progressive spring. With a stiff linear spring it will prevent roll itself while allowing the softer more supply sway bar to keep the front tires planted.

Good luck finding a good linear spring. I sure miss my SS linears I'd wait till you can get a coilover set up and dialed in, and work with the sway bars from there. I recomend the 20/26 setup my self. I could still get both inside tires off the ground on cloverleaf off ramps with that set up. Fun stuff!!!

 

[Dan H]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't running a 24 front with a 26 rear have some understeer? I was just saying if he wants to run a 24 front the 29 rear might be a better choice. Personally I think 22/26 would be the way to go.

If your planning on coilovers wait to set up your swaybars as you will want a completely different setup.

 

[twr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't running a 24 front with a 26 rear have some understeer? I was just saying if he wants to run a 24 front the 29 rear might be a better choice. Personally I think 22/26 would be the way to go.

If your planning on coilovers wait to set up your swaybars as you will want a completely different setup.

No, you are correct. The 24/26 should have some understeer. But the core of the debate was that the 24mm FSB will let the inside tire lift under hard cornering and the quaife will revert to an open diff (wheel spin) The 24/29 combo will do the same, the fix is a smaller front bar.

FWIW I have the 24/26 swaybar combo and have very little understeer. However I can correct it and induce oversteer with the throttle. My personal preference is to be able to induce both and correct both with a little throttle control.

 

[91taurisho]

FWIW I have the 24/26 swaybar combo and have very little understeer. However I can correct it and induce oversteer with the throttle. My personal preference is to be able to induce both and correct both with a little throttle control.

I also have the 24/26 combo. I have very little understeer. I can induce oversteer at anytime I want and that's how I like it. I plan on replacing my stock rsb bushings with the tpr ones I have lying around. I also plan on leaving my stock front bushings in there(140,000 miles). It's going to be like I have a 20/26 combo, maybe worse. I'm going to leave it like that for a while and see if it provides for too much oversteer. If that's the case, I'll be switching to either tpr bushings and a 22mm front bar or stock rubber and the 24mm front bar. Which should be about the same once the bushings break in, at least, IMO.

 

[FAST4DR]

Well I have the stock rubber bushings on the front 20.5mm bar and then I have TPR on all bushings except, the front side of the locating links, which are rubber. The BMR bars on the rear are polyurethane. The lower control arms with the ball joint have tpr on the locating link but rubber where it attaches to the subframe. I can feel every crack in the road including the ones I can't see! I would not want to drive it this way on a daily basis, but it sure does track like it's on rails.

Now, about understeer/oversteer. I know that this is sometimes objective, depending on how you drive the car. My experience is that in a steady state turn, when you keep pushing, faster and faster, or you come into a turn with a preset speed, neutral throttle, and are just going to make the turn, the 20.5/26 is pretty neutral and you can induce a four wheel drift. The 24/26 combo will push the front end(understeer) more. BUT, the 24/26 combo will induce a lift throttle oversteer or where you start going into a turn and stab the brakes(braking oversteer) more easily than the 20.5/26 combo. So that is why I think people say the 24/26 combo understeers less.

I like the 24 front bar more, because it makes the car tossable, and to me, keeps the front end more level and "feels" tighter. With the 20.5 bar on the front it is more difficult to get the car out of line.

I think a lot of it comes down to your driving style and ability. I love to scare the crap out of people, by jerking the wheel and stabbing the brakes at 80-100 mph and throwing the car sideways. Such fun.

Will

P.S. I was referring to the front bar as a 20.6, but upon measing it and looking for bushings it is really a 20.5 bar. Very picky I know, but I guess it is a 20.5mm bar.

 

[TrueBlue]

Have you corrected for camber yet on your car, Will? Did drilling out the strut mount welds and hogging the holes correct it for you? After I got the new ball joints in, I'm finding this thing eats the outer shoulders like mad.

 

[91taurisho]

Have you corrected for camber yet on your car, Will? Did drilling out the strut mount welds and hogging the holes correct it for you? After I got the new ball joints in, I'm finding this thing eats the outer shoulders like mad.

That's my problem... With even more camber than what I have, they should wear evenly!

 

[FAST4DR]

Have you corrected for camber yet on your car, Will? Did drilling out the strut mount welds and hogging the holes correct it for you? After I got the new ball joints in, I'm finding this thing eats the outer shoulders like mad.

I get it aligned thursday so I don't know yet. With the stock intrax, the front camber was set -.8 degrees. That's without hogging out the holes, Just drilling out the plates and moving them all the way towards the fender. So I am hoping that with them cut down and the plates all the way towards the fender, the camber is somewhere around -1.2 or -1.5 degrees.

We'll see on Thursday....

Will