CID Cam Seal

[Goulash]

I think I might have to RE-replace this one, and I'm looking for some advice...

Recently I changed the 3 cam seals and the crank seal, and it acted fine (I didn't see any leaks), but now I've been driving a bit and it seems like I have a small leak (the cat-burning-smoke thing). The leak is toward the rear of the cat, and judging by how stupid that rear cam seal was to install, I think it could be that. The other seals went in with no problem.

How do you guys tell when the rear cam seal is seated? It felt fine when I put it it, but you can't see anything. Also, I accidentally unbolted the cam journal cap (I think that's the name) while doing it - I thought it was part of the CID housing - and installed the seal with it off. Could that have anything to do with it? Should I have used RTV on that cap? I just need some feedback, since it's a blind install.

Anyway, car runs fine, oil pressure is good, but the smoke is annoying! Thanks in advance.

- Justin

P.S. - It's in a 93 ATX.

 

[gosho89]

I think I might have to RE-replace this one, and I'm looking for some advice...

Recently I changed the 3 cam seals and the crank seal, and it acted fine (I didn't see any leaks), but now I've been driving a bit and it seems like I have a small leak (the cat-burning-smoke thing). The leak is toward the rear of the cat, and judging by how stupid that rear cam seal was to install, I think it could be that. The other seals went in with no problem.

How do you guys tell when the rear cam seal is seated? It felt fine when I put it it, but you can't see anything. Also, I accidentally unbolted the cam journal cap (I think that's the name) while doing it - I thought it was part of the CID housing - and installed the seal with it off. Could that have anything to do with it? Should I have used RTV on that cap? I just need some feedback, since it's a blind install.

Anyway, car runs fine, oil pressure is good, but the smoke is annoying! Thanks in advance.

- Justin

P.S. - It's in a 93 ATX.

My advise is to go to a local plumbing wholesale store and get a piece of PVC (white) coupler to hold the seal in place while you fasten the cam journal backdown. This is of course after you remove the rear v/cover and cam journel. Yes you need to clean the surface and use RTV between the journel and head, make sure to double check your torque specs. Also use a little bit of RTV on the outside of the seal before installing it. This procedure has worked several times for me and my customers

 

[Goulash]

So then my steps should be...

1. Access rear seal.
2. Remove cam journal and clean area.
3. Using RTV, seat new seal.
4. Using RTV, torque down cam journal while holding in seal with PVC.
5. Reassemble.

Can I seat the seal with the PVC, or do I need to beat on it? How much pressure should I use to hold it in while I torque it down? Does anyone have the torque specs for the cam journal? And finally, do I really need to remove the valve cover? Last time, the journal lifted up pretty easily after I (ignorantly) undid the two bolts...

Thanks again for any help...this method seems way easier than the last time, where I used PVC and....and tire iron.

- Justin

 

[Dr. Tweak]

www.shophoenixproject.com

Look in the front 60k section

 

[SolidState]

are you sure you didn't nick the cam while removing the orignal seal?

if so, the seal will forever leak...

 

[gosho89]

So then my steps should be...

1. Access rear seal.
2. Remove cam journal and clean area.
3. Using RTV, seat new seal.
4. Using RTV, torque down cam journal while holding in seal with PVC.
5. Reassemble.

Can I seat the seal with the PVC, or do I need to beat on it? How much pressure should I use to hold it in while I torque it down? Does anyone have the torque specs for the cam journal? And finally, do I really need to remove the valve cover? Last time, the journal lifted up pretty easily after I (ignorantly) undid the two bolts...

Thanks again for any help...this method seems way easier than the last time, where I used PVC and....and tire iron.

- Justin

Yes on steps 1-5

The PVC is just to hold the seal straight in the bore while you install the cam journel. Don't beat on it, just hold it with your hand. Yes you need to remove the rear valve cover. The front 60k method of replacement won't work if the cam journel has been loosened. I don't have the torque specs in front of me but I believe its around 15-25 inch lbs.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

No, no, no, no, no!

You do not want to install the journal cap with the cam seal installed. That is how leaks usually end up happening. The cap usually ends up crushing/deforming a tiny piece of the seal when being tightened down. The PROPER method is to install the cap with no seal in place, and THEN install the seal. Use a prybar against the strut tower to push on the PVC pipe to seat the seal. When you do it, you'll just "know" by the feel that the seal has seated -- I can't describe it in a more positive manner, it's just a feeling that you'll know.

 

[gosho89]

No, no, no, no, no!

You do not want to install the journal cap with the cam seal installed. That is how leaks usually end up happening. The cap usually ends up crushing/deforming a tiny piece of the seal when being tightened down. The PROPER method is to install the cap with no seal in place, and THEN install the seal. Use a prybar against the strut tower to push on the PVC pipe to seat the seal. When you do it, you'll just "know" by the feel that the seal has seated -- I can't describe it in a more positive manner, it's just a feeling that you'll know.

Then call me lucky but after six rear Cam Seal installs I've yet to have one leak using my technique. Lets just say what ever works for you, but with the success I've had I don't plan on changing the way I do it.

Kerry T

 

[Goulash]

We have a debate...

Either way, I didn't install it right the first time, so either of these methods is probably better than how I did it. And since the seal is only $3, if one way doesn't work, I'll try the other.

Any other feedback?

- Justin