broken alternator cable connection

[zanzimaru]

hello again... so im in the process of replacing my alternor when my lower alternator cable's (the one with the rubber protector on it held in place by a washer and nut not the three pronged assy) round connector breaks off... just wanted to get some insight as to where this connection leads... i think it goes to the starter.. is this correct ... if so please let me know and if ne1 knows what its called it would help alot... many thanks

oh... and it might help to say that it is a:
1995 ATX 3.2L SHO

 

[techi14]

Could be just the ground wire. Follow it.

 

[average sho]

i think it goes to the starter.. is this correct

Yes it does go to the starter.

All your main power cables meet at the starter.
1. battery to starter
2. alt to starter
3.starter to fuse box under hood.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

That's incorrect.

The wire (BK/O) goes to the Engine Compartment Fuse Panel, via the main harness that runs along the top of the radiator to the driver's inner fender.

Btw, "BK/O" is shorthand for the wiring harness color-coding, and stands for Black/Orange stripe.

 

[average sho]

That's incorrect.

The wire (BK/O) goes to the Engine Compartment Fuse Panel, via the main harness that runs along the top of the radiator to the driver's inner fender.

Btw, "BK/O" is shorthand for the wiring harness color-coding, and stands for Black/Orange stripe.

How is that incorrect?

The power wire from the battery goes to the starter, the alternator power wire goes to the starter. At the starter you have 2 ring terminals, 1 for the battery, then 1 for the alternator and the power distibution box under the hood, on driver side next to the strut tower. both wires on the same terminal.
The BK/O on a 95 atx cuts across the top of the transmission, to the fuse box under the hood. The BK/O wire runs all bye its self

Thats the way it was when i replaced all my power wires on a 95 atx

 

[Storm-Chaser]

There are four harness wire-leads from the alternator:

• BK/O - alternator to Engine Compartment Fuse Panel
  
  
• Y/W - alternator to Engine Compartment Fuse Panel
  
  
• LG/R - alternator to ignition switch
  
  
• W/BK - alternator loop-wire between the three-wire and single-wire connectors

There is no wire that goes from the alternator, to the starter.

 

[hawkeye18]

holy jesus, people. This is not that complicated.

Storm chaser: No. The BK/O wire does, eventually, get to the fuse panel, but it gets there THROUGH the starter. I'm looking at the EVTM right now. The BK/O cable goes from the alternator to the starter solenoid, where it branches off to the battery. This is the cable that the alternator uses to charge the battery; why would it go through the fuse box?

There are three cables attached to the starter; one that goes to the battery, one that goes to the alternator, and one (on the other lug) that goes to the fuse box. The ground cable is mounted to one of the attaching bolts of the starter.

Now, that's not to say that on different year cars, it wasn't different, but this is a 95 ATX, and that's how it's routed on those.

 

[average sho]

oh... and it might help to say that it is a:
1995 ATX 3.2L SHO

There is a diffrence between the 3.0 and 3.2.

The 3.2 is different then all of the motors offered for the taurus sho or slo.

the 3.0 sho 3.0l and 3.8l slo are the same, were they do not run thru the starter

 

[Storm-Chaser]

While I don't have access to an EVTM right now, having stripped-out both a 93 ATX and 95 3.8L front main engine harness in the last month-and-a-half, I can tell you that the Black/Orange stripe wire in both went directly to the Engine Compartment Fuse Panel. While the ATX was a 93, if I remember correctly the electrical diagrams (93 and 94/95 3.2L alternator) are the same.

Conversely, you can argue why would the BK/O wire go through the starter solenoid? The alternator is not capable of powering the starter during the start, where the engine is only turning over at ~300-400 rpms. And why wouldn't you provide a direct power feed to the main fuse panel, that powers virtually everything in the vehicle whether it is running or not? The alternator does have two purposes - to provide running power once the engine is started, as well as to provide charging-source for the battery, again once the engine is started.

Guess I'll have to go find that ATX harness and EVTM, and trace the wires again. Does the EVTM show any splices in the harness?

holy jesus, people. This is not that complicated.

Storm chaser: No. The BK/O wire does, eventually, get to the fuse panel, but it gets there THROUGH the starter. I'm looking at the EVTM right now. The BK/O cable goes from the alternator to the starter solenoid, where it branches off to the battery. This is the cable that the alternator uses to charge the battery; why would it go through the fuse box?

There are three cables attached to the starter; one that goes to the battery, one that goes to the alternator, and one (on the other lug) that goes to the fuse box. The ground cable is mounted to one of the attaching bolts of the starter.

Now, that's not to say that on different year cars, it wasn't different, but this is a 95 ATX, and that's how it's routed on those.

 

[hawkeye18]

Guys, guys, imagine a big x, with the base at the bottom left.

_____Alternator___Fuse Box
______________X
Starter Solenoid___Battery

All four of these things are connected... at the starter solenoid. (sorry about the underscores, it's the only way I could get it to display correctly)

Electrical connections can be a very confusing things. Things that appear to be directly connected on a circuit diagram can be very, very far apart and seemingly unconnected. The starter solenoid is in parallel with the battery and alternator. This means that, if the starter is not drawing any load, the alternator's juice goes straight to the battery. When the alternator is not putting out juice, and the starter suddenly wants a whole bunch, the juice comes from the battery, flowing the other way.

The cables from the battery and alternator are physically bolted together, forming a direct electrical short, but they're bolted to the starter solenoid, including it in the loop (when necessary).

You'll notice that there are two studs on the starter solenoid. One of them has two cables, going to the battery and alternator, as previously discussed, and the other one has one cable - going to the fuse box. "But Jason," You might say, "How the **** is the power from the battery going to the fuse box if it's on a different stud!?"

Simple answer is, both studs are connected inside the solenoid. The reason, as best I can figure, is that it's too likely that three cables on one stud will cause connection / stud snapping issues.

Anyway, throwing the fuse box on there is simple; it's just one more thing in the branch. The juice will flow jointly to the fuse box from the battery and/or alternator as required. Whichever of the two is producing more voltage will determine how the juice is flowing, but it still all gets to the fuse box. Through two fusible links, mind you.

I can sit here and explain Ohm's law and its effects on this discussion, but your eyes will glass over. An interesting fact is that electricity does not simply follow the path of least resistance; it will follow all paths in proportion to its resistance. If your body is 10 MOhms and ground is 3 Ohms, you will still receive .00003 percent of whatever voltage goes to ground. I'm cursed with low resistance (I've measured myself between thumbs at almost as low as 800Kohms occasionally) so zaps are proportionately worse for me .

Did I mention I'm an Aviation Electronics technician? I kinda "get" charging systems. If you would, for some masochistic reason, like to hear a dissertation on charging systems that will guarantee you know them like the back of your hand, feel free to PM me!

P.S. it does not matter how you arrange the cables on the solenoid. You can have one stud going to the fuse box and battery and the alternator cable on the other one. It doesn't matter; it's all going to the same places.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Pull apart the battery cable harness to any Gen 2 car (ATX or MTX), and you'll find that the B+ cable from the alternator goes to the starter first, via a single lug with a second wire that splits off to the mega fuse box behind the driver's strut tower.

In another way to look at it, the B+ cable is a "Y" from the hot side of the starter solenoid with one side going to the alternator and the other side going to the dist. box. The hot side of the solenoid is where all the positives meet.

You'll notice that there are two studs on the starter solenoid. One of them has two cables, going to the battery and alternator, as previously discussed, and the other one has one cable - going to the fuse box. "But Jason," You might say, "How the **** is the power from the battery going to the fuse box if it's on a different stud!?"

Simple answer is, both studs are connected inside the solenoid. The reason, as best I can figure, is that it's too likely that three cables on one stud will cause connection / stud snapping issues.

P.S. it does not matter how you arrange the cables on the solenoid. You can have one stud going to the fuse box and battery and the alternator cable on the other one. It doesn't matter; it's all going to the same places.

HUH!?!?!?

The ONLY thing connected to the cold side of the starter solenoid are the brushes in the starter motor. The only time the cold side of the solenoid is energized is when the key is in the start position. You can't connect the dist. box or any other component that needs constant 12vdc to the cold side of the solenoid!

Here, read this post I made the other day and perhaps that will explain it all better: http://www.shoforum.com/showpost.php?p=901790&postcount=20

Jeebus! :shakehead

To reply to the OP's question, go to Home Depot or Lowes and get a copper lug to replace the broken ring terminal on your B+ cable. They will be in the hardware aisle of the store in the little drawers where you'll find all the specialty nuts/bolts/etc. If you don't have a high-temp soldering gun, you can crimp it on with a pair of Vise Grips.

 

[SHOZ123]

At work we would take the lugs like that and bigger, put a bit of flux in them and on the cable end. Pre-solder the end of the cable. Add enough solder to the lug (~1/3 full) with a torch. Then dunk the cable into the lug with the liquid solder, hold it still until the solder freezes.

Don't wear sandals when doing this.

 

[zanzimaru]

thanks Chris (Mr Anonymous)... i actually just bought that piece that you displayed... gess i need to crimp it on a little harder though... i tried to do it with pliers but it wasnt as tight as i wnted it to be... ne way i taped it with electrical tape and started the engine... i then tsted with BAtt/Alt tester... for the first minuite the alternator was charging at about 14.0Volts... afterwards it dropped to 13.5Volts and thats where it remained... is that an issue that i should be worried about? ( new alternator, newly placed end connection)