Brakes - How Well do Upgraded Versions Perform?

[Hack]

I don't have nearly the track experience of Fred or Eric(and probably others in this thread), but here is my two cents. I have found that cheap rotors and Porterfield R-4 pads are the way to go. I run the PBR 13" Cobra brakes. I can buy rotors from my local NAPA auto parts for about $20 each. I then redrill them for the 5x108mm bolt pattern.

Even if I destroy a pair of rotors on a given track day, I am coming out ahead compared to where I was with street pads. I was using PBR Metalmasters and going through a set of both pads and rotors per track day. (the rotors would crack and or get grooved when the last 1/4 or so of pad lining disintegrated) At $50+ per set on the pads, and $150 or so for a pair of predrilled quality rotors this was getting expensive. If all works out well, the cheap rotors are sort of an intentional weak point.

FWIW, I have not yet experienced any fade. Of course, my car is several hundred pounds lighter than the average SHO. I will also echo the positive sentiments of good quality brake fluid (like Motul 600) and brake cooling ducts.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

The Hawk HPS pads are the only ones they make for the 89-93 size brakes. They stand up to heat well, but are not meant for open track and will most likely overheat. The HP Plus pads are the best street/race tradeoff, but unfotunately, not made for the stock size brakes.

I run the Hawk HPS pads with "tru-stop" vented Napa rotors on my '89.

I still get fade, on the street.

I drive the snot out of this car though

 

[revhardSHO]

I run the Hawk HPS pads with "tru-stop" vented Napa rotors on my '89.

I still get fade, on the street.

*cough* 96 brake upgrade *cough*

 

[AutoSHO]

I run the Hawk HPS pads with "tru-stop" vented Napa rotors on my '89.

I still get fade, on the street.

I drive the snot out of this car though

I've never gotten the Hawks to fade. I drive the crap out of my car as well, maybe I'm just better about managing braking. I know I'll need more for the track, thats why I'm upgrading, but for a street-driven SHO I'd never need more than the Hawk HPS pads.

 

[Shoaz]

Apparently I don't have any really decent pix of the ducts (at least that I can find right now), but here's what I could find:



That's a shot of the front, and you can see where the dryer vent is routed along the subframe from the fog lamp opening. There's a duct from racerpartswholesale in the fog lamp opening that terminates in a 3" round outlet that fits perfectly inside el-cheapo 3" aluminum dryer vent from Home Despot.



This is the side, showing where the end terminates in a plastic 45-degree elbow from an RV sewer system that you can get at Wal-Mart for $2.77 (I just picked up two more today for the Pumpkin). It's placed such that the tire just misses it at full turn in and it points more or less in the direction of the caliper when the tires are straight ahead.

The Baer 12.5" sport kit (which is what I have) fits under 16" rims, but not the slicers. There aren't many aftermarket kits that fit under the slicers, although the Baer 12" kit does with a spacer. I think at least one of Todd's kits fits under slicers but it's not the best kit for the track (but, then again, slicers aren't the best wheels for the track).

There's been enough interest in this cooling duct system that I'm hoping to get some better pictures and put together a small website in a few weeks. I think it's on at least four cars now, maybe more...I can't keep track...

Oh, and Hack I think that's a great strategy using fresh el-cheapo rotors each time. As long as they're reasonably well seasoned before the event that's probably a really cost effective way to do it, and you don't have to continually inspect and worry about whether they're cracking, etc.

 

[Shoaz]

I found some more pix that I like, so I thought I'd post them.



The two black lines on the pavement are brake dust that falls out of the wheels when you stop in the paddock after a session.

So this was a pic of the car in the paddock after two sessions. This was at AMP, which is really ******* brakes. It's not hard to go through an entire set of pads at an event there.

For example, before I put the ducts in I tried using some Porterfield R4-S pads (street pads, lower Cf) in an attempt to try to keep the heat down and prevent boiling the fluid. This was also when I was still using the Baer one-piece rotors. This is a shot of the ROH wheels with an entire set of R4-S pads splattered across them after one event at AMP:

 

[AutoSHO]

Gunmetal Snypers... Nice!

 

[Yamaha V6]

Ummm, that's brake dust, dude.

 

[SuperG]

Great idea for the ducts...thanks for the pics and the description. And the brake dust is something to behold, huh?

By the way, I run on T-bird wheels:

But I drive on slicers by day...

OK, so now I am back to cheap rotors, PFC Pads, cooling, bleeding. As I think about it, I went 2 weekends to TWS on the cheapo rotors and PFC's, but the experience was cut short with the little wheel mishap. The only negative was brake fade (which I can resolve)...so I'll do this again (spend monies elsewhere like on tranny cooling) and see how the pads and rotors hold up for an entire weekend with some on the spot maintenance.

 

[SASHO91]

Gary that price is not just the rotors. It is a kit.. which includes brembo pads, and SS lines.... Just FWI...
i think they might have changed it though.... i printed one out when i bout it and it sayss that there are SS DOT/TUV lines included, but now i cant seem to find were it says that...
I will check their website again for it.

 

[SuperG]

Whoa! I did not realize that...eventhough it says, "kit!" Thanks! After you receive your kit, when will you install it? When will you tell us about the results? When, when, when?

Edit:
Just got an e-mail from TruckPerformance.com, and the kit is just a pair of rotors, although they are sending me a price for the pads and SS lines.

 

[SuperG]

Just got an e-mail from TruckPerformance.com, and the kit is just a pair of rotors, although they are sending me a price for the pads and SS lines.

 

[SASHO91]

see thats what i was worried about. I paid them before they changed there web site.
I have a print out that says brake lines, and pads are included in the kit.
so if i dont have lines and pads, im gonna be ******. i bought the kit 4-5 days before they changed there web site.
when i posted about it here, i clicked on the link that i had saved, and it gave me something else. then i went back and did it again, and it was a different part number.
all i know is, i better get some pads a lines.... im gonna be so :cuss:

EDIT: i just sent them an email, asking what will become of my order. i am waiting for a response. I bought the kit on the 13th, and they changed their web site IIRC yesterday? it was when i posted on page one with the link....
anyways, just a update.....

 

[AREA 91]

For all you guys and gals out there in SHO land, upgrade your brakes if you drive hard! Remember me at Thunder Hill??? Fire! Fire!

 

[Todd TCE]

Pedal feel for those following is related to the caliper choice at times.

Some years back the caliper of choice was the open bridge BSL for it's looks, light weight and differential bore. The down side was more deflection than many folks felt should be there. True, but it was a feel issue as there was more travel but still ample clamping. The newer FSL (forging) is much, much stiffer offering quicker response time and more linear pedal feel. Down side; it's much heavier.

The caliper only kit for the 96 parts is a radial NDL or radial DP caliper depending upon what is ordered. It is a middle ground package offering less weight and good pad selection yet retaining the popular 96 rotor. All fitting inside many wheels where the larger FSL won't come close without the complete kit. Down side; good pads may well up the rotor temps more, lighter caliper will not be as stiff as the FSL, pads are smaller so will go through them quicker.

Track days with the JR; I'd take a spare set of pads and rotors with me. Beat the crap out of the track ones, put the street ones and pads back in when done and drive home. Well, actually I'd do this with the big kits too. BTW, if anyone needs a 96 rotor I got one I'm dumping for $25 shipped. Old mock up part not needed any longer.)

 

[AutoSHO]

What kind of rotor for the '96 and do you only have one? I may be interested.

 

[MYSHO1]

http://www.shoforum.com/member.php?u=3123

any ideas?

 

[Yamaha V6]

Umm, just one... what is it you want our ideas on, specifically?

Got an email asking for help too, no idea what about.

 

[somedude_001]

i'm far from a brake expert but when your running at the track and having brake cooling issues would it be benifical to remove the front and rear dust shields?

 

[Shoaz]

i'm far from a brake expert but when your running at the track and having brake cooling issues would it be benifical to remove the front and rear dust shields?

Yes, the dust shield is one of the first things to go.