jmpSHO2nd
SHO Member
Same thing here with the thermoquiet I installed a few for customers but never on my own vehicle. Not sure if they would hold up to my aggressive driving.
Brake pad recommendations.
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Same thing here with the thermoquiet I installed a few for customers but never on my own vehicle. Not sure if they would hold up to my aggressive driving.
sdpatt
Sr. SHO Engr.
I contentedly used the inexpensive PFCM pads for many years, but never liked the cold/initial/emergency bite performance on the street and carbon deposits on the rotors on the track. After running a set of Carbotech XP10 pads on the 96 upgrade caliper/rotor combination at the track, I retired the PFCMs for the Carbotech 1521 street compound. All I can say is I am very impressed with their coefficient of friction, cold bite and resistance to fade. I cannot imagine these pads fading even on track days with their temperature resistance up to 900F, but they are not recommended for track use by Carbotech.
I truly enjoy their powerful grip during frisky street driving and have depended upon their emergency bite in many situations of stop and stop quicker rush hour traffic. I will always use the XP10 compound on the track since I have it and a matching set of XP10-bedded rotors, but the 1521 compound is my strong recommendation for street performance and safety. See their compound descriptions below. They are a little pricier than lesser pads, but they are not lesser pads. You will be amazed.
http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp
I truly enjoy their powerful grip during frisky street driving and have depended upon their emergency bite in many situations of stop and stop quicker rush hour traffic. I will always use the XP10 compound on the track since I have it and a matching set of XP10-bedded rotors, but the 1521 compound is my strong recommendation for street performance and safety. See their compound descriptions below. They are a little pricier than lesser pads, but they are not lesser pads. You will be amazed.
http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp
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hawkeye18
Sorta cares
>has won multiple SCCA Solo 2 and Prosolo National Championships
>Bobcat 1521™ is NOT recommended for any track use
sdpatt
Sr. SHO Engr.
>has won multiple SCCA Solo 2 and Prosolo National Championships
>Bobcat 1521™ is NOT recommended for any track use
Not quite sure what you mean by the comment above. SCCA Solo 2 and Prosolo are autocross, not "track" events. The brake loads and temperatures for slowing a car repeatedly from 80-120+ mph are much greater than those for an autocross event.
luigisho
SHO Member
Scott, how much dust do the Carbotech pads produce compared to the PFCM's?
jmpSHO2nd
SHO Member
So I ended up going with the Ford OEM pads (PN: XF3Z-2001-CB) and I think they stop better than the Hawk pads did. I am very pleased with them. Of course I got into an arguement with an auto parts store about the motorcraft and Ford pads not being the same.
RonPorter
SHO Club of America
There had to be other issues. HPS pads may be slightly more noisy than factory crap, but not much at all. AND, they are VERY rotor-friendly.
Pads that **** rotors, like a number of race pads, do NOT put grooves into them, they were them down smoothly as if they were grinding stones.
You had other issues with proper pad/rotor bedding, possibly not having a good rotor surface when you put the pads on, or sticky pins or caliper.
Unless you get the situation squared away, ANY pads will do the same.
Hawk HPS, EBC Green or Yellow, Carbotech Bobcat (or is it a new name now??), and Porterfield R4S are all good upgrades for agreesive street driving and autocross. Even the old standy, PFCM pads, do well.
Sounds like those rotors are trashed. Go to AZ *** get a new set of the cheapest rotors they have. Here is an oldie but a goodie on seasoning new rotors:
http://www.shotimes.com/brakes/part1.html
And when you get the new pads, follow the instructions for bedding them in. And make sure that pistons and poins move freely. Also FLUSH all the brake fluid, and make sure it flows freely. A swelling brake hose can keep the caliper from releasing.
jmpSHO2nd
SHO Member
I do at least 10 brake jobs a week so I doubt it was anything I did. When I removed the pads and rotors all pins were sliding fine and I regreased them before reassembly. Rotors are replaced with Centric rotors. I don't think I would ever use an AZ rotor.
RonPorter
SHO Club of America
I'm on about my 3rd (or is it 4th??) set of AX6/Panther Plus pads on the LGT, and I LOVE them. They stand up to track days VERY well. I was swapping out to HPS for the winter, but I leave the AX6 in year-round. Yeah, a bit dusty & noisy, but the braking performance, even when cold, makes up for it.
I was a fan of the Porterfield R4S on a couple of the SHOs. The Invoice always said "Not For Track Use", but I did anyway. For a basically stock SHO, they worked well at the track. But, on both sets I had, after both had two track days, the front pads split down the groove in the center. The still were working, though.
RonPorter
SHO Club of America
There are MANY of us who have used the cheap AZ rotors with the '96+ SHO brakes over MANY track days over the last 10+ years, and they work just perfect.
Unless you are running a race series, or just gotta have the "look" of a certain rotor with holes, slots, or dimples, spending more than you have to is a waste of money. There is no additional performance to be gained with a pricey rotor. Same with spending big $$$ on brake fluid like Motul.
RonPorter
SHO Club of America
Well, I hafta say that, across the SHO lists and Forums, The Legacy GT forum, as well as the 911 lists I was on when I had one, yours is the FIRST story I've heard with those problems with the HPS pads over the last 10-12 years I've been familiar with these pads.
Again, grooves in a rotor are NOT from pads that are not rotor-friendly.
RonPorter
SHO Club of America
The Carbotech Bobcats have far less dust than the PFCM. Bobcats have been a favorite pad of the Gen 3 guys for years. The trade-off with the cheap price of the PFCM is that they dust almost as much as my Carbotech AX6 pads.
jmpSHO2nd
SHO Member
I don't have drilled or slotted and I have warped inexpensive rotors before not sure where I bought them but it did happen. I payed a little more for the Centrics than what AZ charges for a rotor.
sdpatt
Sr. SHO Engr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luigisho
Scott, how much dust do the Carbotech pads produce compared to the PFCM's?
I too have found that the Carbotech 1521 "Bobcats" are low dust pads compared to the PFCMs. They are quite easy on the rotors and wear at a very low rate. After the incredible braking experience at lapping days at Texas World Speedway with the XP10s, I tried using them on the street. Their friction coefficient was almost laughably high and required a delicate touch on the brake pedal. However, the noise and dust were a bit much to deal with on a daily basis. it was then that I purchased the 1521 "Bobcat" pads. I have been a Carbotech fan for street and track ever since. For the moderate amount of extra cash, you guarantee a high performing braking system that is likely the most important safety feature on the car. The cost/benefit analysis of these pads reveals a huge safety and performance increase for a minor expense. Don't be cheap on brakes. Or tires.
Originally Posted by luigisho
Scott, how much dust do the Carbotech pads produce compared to the PFCM's?
I too have found that the Carbotech 1521 "Bobcats" are low dust pads compared to the PFCMs. They are quite easy on the rotors and wear at a very low rate. After the incredible braking experience at lapping days at Texas World Speedway with the XP10s, I tried using them on the street. Their friction coefficient was almost laughably high and required a delicate touch on the brake pedal. However, the noise and dust were a bit much to deal with on a daily basis. it was then that I purchased the 1521 "Bobcat" pads. I have been a Carbotech fan for street and track ever since. For the moderate amount of extra cash, you guarantee a high performing braking system that is likely the most important safety feature on the car. The cost/benefit analysis of these pads reveals a huge safety and performance increase for a minor expense. Don't be cheap on brakes. Or tires.
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Bob Gervais
Wut?
Agreed. Properly bedded, seasoned, salted and peppered, I've had nothing but good luck with the cheapos. The set I have on the 92 now have seen two cars, three track days, and two sets of pads.
hawkeye18
Sorta cares
I'm willing to stake a large-ish amount of money that up to 90% of warped rotors are caused either by deposited pad material, or improper seasoning procedures. Specifically, people bedding their pads before they season their rotors.
It'll happen every time. There is a reason you season your rotors first; place an ice cube in a glass of warm water and watch what happens. The ice cube immediately cracks and fractures internally. Why? There are internal stresses in an ice cube, and when you subject them to thermal shock, they will, instead of ironing themselves out, have basically the equivalent of an unchecked muscle spasm that rips the internal structure apart and causes... you got it, warping. But ice cubes are brittle, so they crack instead.
Rotors are no different. There are internal stresses in them from the manufacturing process, and they are uneven. If you gently heat the rotor up first (akin to letting the ice cube melt on the counter - no cracking!), these stresses will gently relieve themselves and you'll have a unified crystalline structure. If you heat it up too fast, the rotor will warp from the stresses.
It'll happen every time. There is a reason you season your rotors first; place an ice cube in a glass of warm water and watch what happens. The ice cube immediately cracks and fractures internally. Why? There are internal stresses in an ice cube, and when you subject them to thermal shock, they will, instead of ironing themselves out, have basically the equivalent of an unchecked muscle spasm that rips the internal structure apart and causes... you got it, warping. But ice cubes are brittle, so they crack instead.
Rotors are no different. There are internal stresses in them from the manufacturing process, and they are uneven. If you gently heat the rotor up first (akin to letting the ice cube melt on the counter - no cracking!), these stresses will gently relieve themselves and you'll have a unified crystalline structure. If you heat it up too fast, the rotor will warp from the stresses.
K-Dawg
SHO Member
<-- Cheap rotor user.
ajd32186
New Member
I always use a ceramic brake pad on any car I drive.
akebono makes great pads for high end cars and now they are sold at bell tire.
Also akebono has another line of brakes that are good but I cant remember the name.
akebono makes great pads for high end cars and now they are sold at bell tire.
Also akebono has another line of brakes that are good but I cant remember the name.
RonPorter
SHO Club of America
Nah, I disagree. 99%+ are from what you mentioned.
I have had it in the past from cheap pads. Funny how those "warped" rotors can take a cleanup pass on the rotor grinder and still be good for another go-around.
But, lotsa companies making big $$$ selling expensive rotors, brake fluid, and full brake kits to street guys. Guess I missed out on my chances to make a fortune off the gullibility and misinformation of MANY car "enthusiasts"!!
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