Auto Trans problem...

[Joe_Cool]

I have a '93 3.2L SHO with an automatic transmission. It has run famously since I bought it in February of this year, until last week.

Now, nearly every time I slow down below 5mph or so, it slips out of gear and doesn't want to go back in. If I put it in reverse then back into D, it usually engages normally, but not always. Sometimes I have to just sit and wait until it drops into gear, and when that happens it's often hard enough to whiplash my neck and chirp the tires. I did check the fluid level and it's fine.

I took it to a transmission shop where they said they'd "check it", and all they did was read the check engine codes. They didn't even drop the transmission oil pan and told me I need a new tranny. :ugh:

So my question is, what could be causing that? Is it possible that it's a less major repair than a complete rebuild or replacement, or were these guys not full of crap?

If so, what should I expect to pay for a new/rebuilt one?

PS I've been lurking for a few months & this is my first post. Hi.

 

[hawkeye18]

lol Posts:1... I remember those days. Welcome! :wave:

Anyway, I don't think it's new tranny time. I think it's new shift solenoid time, and possibly new VSS time. Does the cruise control work? Does the car not like to downshift when coming to a halt?

p.s. the '93 tranny computer (H31Z? I think) just sucks. I would get an ECU out of a '94/'95 tranny (D4U1) and put that in there - it's not that hard. It's a major improvement in terms of tranny control, and will extend the life of your tranny significantly.

I would take it to different tranny shops. Independent shops are usually (NOT always) more reliable, as they depend on word of mouth more than aamco, etc. do.

If the fluid is fine (i.e. still bright red, not looking like motor oil), then usually it's not new tranny time. But, beware, it's only a matter of time with these... you better start saving up. It's at least $2k. Usually more towards $3k if you do it right...

 

[Joe_Cool]

lol Posts:1... I remember those days. Welcome! :wave:

Yeah it's weird. I've got 50k posts on another big forum, so this is odd territory.

Anyway, I don't think it's new tranny time. I think it's new shift solenoid time, and possibly new VSS time. Does the cruise control work? Does the car not like to downshift when coming to a halt?

It seems to shift fine, except for the problem with slipping out of gear. I've never really paid attention to the downshifting.

p.s. the '93 tranny computer (H31Z? I think) just sucks. I would get an ECU out of a '94/'95 tranny (D4U1) and put that in there - it's not that hard. It's a major improvement in terms of tranny control, and will extend the life of your tranny significantly.

I'll look into that. It plugs right in? No rewiring or weird harnesses required?

I would take it to different tranny shops. Independent shops are usually (NOT always) more reliable, as they depend on word of mouth more than aamco, etc. do.

If the fluid is fine (i.e. still bright red, not looking like motor oil), then usually it's not new tranny time. But, beware, it's only a matter of time with these... you better start saving up. It's at least $2k. Usually more towards $3k if you do it right...

The fluid isn't what I'd call bright red. It's still red, but a little dark. Not black, but not bright red. Does that mean bad?

 

[LeddZepp8687]

You know Mine did a similar thing before and simply vanished...

I got in the car one day and pulled out of the driveway it held 1st until like 4 grand then Slammed into second. Then slipped out of second back into it. I panicked and turned around. Check my codes and pulled a TPS code. Which seemed believeable thinking it was thinking I was at WOT causing a firm shift. Wrong. TPS fixed nothing. I went back to the parts store and bought a VSS. Realized it would be a pain and decided to try and drive it again.

Seemed fine....Then slammed into second 2 times on a 20 minute drive. Drove another 30 minutes and it was fine. Floored the car once and it chirped the living **** outta second. I was happy but knew something was wrong (LOL)

I parked the car for the day and returned the next day and checked the codes, I got another TPS code and I had reset them before. Went back and swapped TPS sensors. Magically it went away and retured a few days later. I replaced the VSS sensor but it did nothing. Someone suggested shift solenoids but I couldnt find the parts anywhere. The problem went away and I never had the problem again.

I flushed the tranny at 96k and didnt know if it had been flushed. It never acted the same after that. It slipped on and off, here and there, ect.

Then when it seemed okay again It slipped in and out of gear and bounced the rev limiter then re-engaged at full throttle. Hit some traffic and it wouldnt move in any gear. AAA'd it to my tranny guy and he told me I had no pressure. Snapped pump shaft. Got a stocker sitting on my patio to be built and a SHObros TQ convertor.

Ah, Sorry for the super detailed story.

Cliff notes, Try a VSS or TPS sensor.

 

[hawkeye18]

ooh yeah, I've heard some horror stories about that pump shaft. When it goes, it seems like the tranny dies, but really the tranny itself is fine, that shaft just needs replacing. Good news: it can be replaced in the car. Bad news: Good luck finding one!

Zepp is right. Check TPS and VSS. You can get a multimeter (preferably analog!) and sweep the TPS through its range to look for bumps, spikes, dips, etc... anything not on a straight curve from ~1V-~5V.

 

[projectSHO89]

I really doubt it's either the TPS or the VSS sensor.

My bet would be on a split forward clutch drum, especially it it seems to work okay when the fluid is cold.

See if you can hook manual 2nd. That position eliminates all the electronics (manual linkage).

Steve

 

[Joe_Cool]

I really doubt it's either the TPS or the VSS sensor.

My bet would be on a split forward clutch drum, especially it it seems to work okay when the fluid is cold.

See if you can hook manual 2nd. That position eliminates all the electronics (manual linkage).

Steve

Manual 1st and 2nd work sometimes. Not always. They work much more often than D, but not consistently.

 

[projectSHO89]

If manual 2nd fails to work, then its either a mechanical or hydraulic failure, not electrical. You can disconnect the transmission bulkhead connector and still have manual 2nd and REVERSE due to the mechanical valving.

Steve

 

[Joe_Cool]

Ok, so I found one that they say is ready to install, $500 + exchange. Is that a good deal?
Assuming I can find somebody to install it for me, of course.

 

[Joe_Cool]

If manual 2nd fails to work, then its either a mechanical or hydraulic failure, not electrical. You can disconnect the transmission bulkhead connector and still have manual 2nd and REVERSE due to the mechanical valving.

Steve

Well, this is interesting.

After rereading this thread, I decided to double-check this.

I drove the car a few miles to warm up the fluid (R, D, and 1 fail pretty consistently now, where they weren't so bad before), then did a bunch of stop & go to test out the various gears. Manual 2nd worked EVERY SINGLE TIME. When D and 1 failed, I shifted into 2 and drove away without a problem.

So what does that mean? I'm going to guess that the problem still might be mechanical or hydraulic, and we just weren't able to completely rule out electrical?

And does the fact that R isn't working anymore point more toward a mechanical problem, then?

 

[projectSHO89]

You do indeed have a failed forward clutch piston.

Rebuild time for a $70 part.....

The forward clutch is used in 1st gear and reverse. While it also applies in 2nd, it's a "doesn't care" condition as a different clutch takes care of the drivetrain power transmission.

$500 isn't bad or good, it's about market value if they will guarantee it.

Steve

 

[SHOBlu]

You do indeed have a failed forward clutch piston.

Rebuild time for a $70 part.....

The forward clutch is used in 1st gear and reverse. While it also applies in 2nd, it's a "doesn't care" condition as a different clutch takes care of the drivetrain power transmission.

$500 isn't bad or good, it's about market value if they will guarantee it.

Steve

X2. The forward clutch piston that came in the transmission from factory is an aluminum unit that is prone to failure. Its probably the most common of failures in the AX4S transaxle. The forward clutch piston has been updated to a steel unit that should be installed during any rebuild.

As for the $500 trans, beware.........you get what you pay for. Is it rebuilt with all the necessary updates or is it just cleaned up and sold as rebuilt? Just to get an idea on how much a rebuilt trans costs............say you were to rebuild your own trans, you would be looking at about $500 in internal parts (this includes all the updated parts) plus another $150 for a reman torque converter. Almost $700 and this does not even include the labor for rebuild time nor the labor for R&R of the trans from the car. This is for the most basic of rebuilds. The price can go up from there if you need to replace the planetaries or differential.

I'm not trying to scare you, I'm just trying to keep you from making an expensive mistake. Do it right the first time and you'll be better off in the long run. Good luck!!

 

[Joe_Cool]

X2. The forward clutch piston that came in the transmission from factory is a bonded unit that is prone to failure. Its probably the most common of failures in the AX4S transaxle. The forward clutch piston has been updated to a steel unit that should be installed during any rebuild.

As for the $500 trans, beware.........you get what you pay for. Is it rebuilt with all the necessary updates or is it just cleaned up and sold as rebuilt? Just to get an idea on how much a rebuilt trans costs............say you were to rebuild your own trans, you would be looking at about $500 in internal parts (this includes all the updated parts) plus another $150 for a reman torque converter. Almost $700 and this does not even include the labor for rebuild time nor the labor for R&R of the trans from the car. This is for the most basic of rebuilds. The price can go up from there if you need to replace the planetaries or differential.

I'm not trying to scare you, I'm just trying to keep you from making an expensive mistake. Do it right the first time and you'll be better off in the long run.

All good advice. I've already talked to several shops and knowledgeable people around town, and decided that I'm taking it to one of the more expensive but reputable shops in town monday morning. They're going to do a rebuild (he specifically mentioned the aluminum vs steel piston) for me, and he quoted "somewhere between $1250 and $1800, including labor, depending on what it needs when we rebuild it."

I have to admit part of the reason I chose them (besides the fact that the owner was very helpful and friendly when my aunt called them to get info for me, and spent about 30 minutes on the phone with her) is this:

The Unser Racing Team
Trusts MATSCO with Their
Transmission Work.
You Can Too!

http://www.matscotransmissions.com/

Jerry, Bobby, Al Sr, Al Jr., Johnny, and Robby Unser have all been from here.

 

[projectSHO89]

Sounds like they will take care of you.

Ask them if they can install Superior **** dam kit and , if you desire, a Superior shift kit (don't over spring it unless you want REALLY firm shifts...).

If you can get a complete rebuild for $1800, you will have a very good deal.

BTW, that $500 market value was for what I presumed was a used unit, not a rebuild...

Steve

 

[Joe_Cool]

Sounds like they will take care of you.

It sounds like it. The fact that the OWNER spent 30 minutes explaining the work he does to a 62 year old woman speaks volumes to me. As does the fact that the Unsers use them.

Ask them if they can install Superior **** dam kit

What is this, and what will it do for me?

and , if you desire, a Superior shift kit (don't over spring it unless you want REALLY firm shifts...).

I do. I'm very fond of firm shifts.

If you can get a complete rebuild for $1800, you will have a very good deal.

BTW, that $500 market value was for what I presumed was a used unit, not a rebuild...

Steve

Yeah, I figure it'll be worth the money. I just hope I don't have to go without my car for a whole week.

 

[projectSHO89]

The Superior **** dam kit improves oil **** to some of the components that otherwise can get starved for oil.

Steve

 

[Joe_Cool]

This is killing me. I won't have my car back until mid-next week. I dropped it off on monday.

 

[Axianator]

p.s. the '93 tranny computer (H31Z? I think) just sucks. I would get an ECU out of a '94/'95 tranny (D4U1) and put that in there - it's not that hard. It's a major improvement in terms of tranny control, and will extend the life of your tranny significantly.

It would be helpful if you would stop spreading that myth, Jason.

As I've mentioned on several occasions in the past, the myth that "the '93 H3Zx computer is better than the '94-'95 D4U1 computer" is simply not true. This fact will become clear once I have released our V6 SHO calibration analysis after the upcoming EEC eBook.

This is killing me. I won't have my car back until mid-next week. I dropped it off on monday.

As rebuilds go, that's actually not a bad wait time. It took my rebuilder over two weeks to complete the rebuild on my '95 ATX back in 2003. Granted, my rebuilder was hampered by hard part backorders and an unforeseen case crack towards the end of the rebuild, but the point is that you don't want your tranny rebuilt by an "assembly line" shop who is willing to sacrifie quality for quantity.

TRUST me, when it comes to getting an ATX rebuilt, you want it done right the first time.

 

[Joe_Cool]

So I got it back today, thank God. MUCH better. Have you ever not known something wasn't right until you saw it when it IS right? Well that's how I feel. It drives so much ... sharper and crisper are the words that come to mind. Very nice.

And I think I've found a shop where I can see myself being a somewhat regular customer. I like to do as much for myself as possible, but for the big stuff, these guys are really good. Very customer service oriented, and communicated with me the whole time. And the owner thanked ME for giving him my business. I thought that was cool.

And yeah, they had to order the torque converter twice from out of state. The first time it came in, it was the wrong one. But I'm happy now.

On a not really related note, anybody know where I can download an owner's manual for this car?

 

[FruedSHO]

Just had to jump in here, after reading this thread. This sounds similar to what happened to my ATX. The car drove perfectly fine until the tranny just stopped working while I was going up a hill. When I shut it down and let it cool, it'll work for about a minute(forward or reverse) and then just stopped. There is a funny little jingling sound that wasn't there before, but thats the only external clue something is wrong. As a side note to you guys, I do have a TPS code and haven't replaced the TPS yet, could that have something to do with the tranny failing?