Anyone tried using Alcohol?

[Eric VerValin]

I was wondering with a little tune, being the PSI (2175?) is a lot higher if this would work wonders for 1/4 mile times...


Anyone wanna try it? Or has anyone?

 

[SHODWN]

Daily!

On a serious note, IMO i dont beleive in that hokey shit in stock in stock type cars.. Just me though.. No offense meant

 

[Eric VerValin]

Since drag cars use it... why is it "hokey" ? Sounds like a better fuel than race fuel.

If anyone tracks a new one, I would imagine a few extra horses couldn't hurt.


I'm just asking if its possible...

 

[OSU 4 SHO]

E85 conversions add power. Local guy converted his WRX and gained around 40hp.

Not sure if thats what you were talking about.

 

[Eric VerValin]

I'm talking straight alcohol.... not a blend 100 octane

 

[1slickRED89]

being that i know of a converted a turbo SHO that used E85, i will share two detracting thoughts and one positive. pure ethanol has less lubricity i think, so it might wear out the injection pump and other parts gasoline may have a lubricating effect on, which might be expensive. also the side location of the injector may/will spray onto the cylinder wall and ethanol might wash down the oil film, leading to excessive engine wear. best case is that you may need to change the oil every 1000 miles for street use and weekly for race use. on the upside, you definitely could run more boost, spark timing, cam retard/advance and get more power.

I would add that alcohol cars should run colder spark plugs than stock too, in fact i would suggest to those 2010 SHO owners that get even an up-rated tune, to run the following spark plug, motorcraft AYFS092FEC, it is going to be discontinued very soon and its great on this engine, i would suggest to those lucky 2010 SHO owners to buy a few sets now.

 

[Bob Gervais]

Since drag cars use it... why is it "hokey" ? Sounds like a better fuel than race fuel.

If anyone tracks a new one, I would imagine a few extra horses couldn't hurt.


I'm just asking if its possible...

Simply put, no. Alcohol will deteriorate aluminum, magnesium, and rubber in a fuel system. I'm not sure what the 2010's arrangement is, but one would have to make sure that there's none of those materials in it.

Alcohol, while having a higher octane rating, doesn't have the same thermal properties as gasoline. In other words, it takes a larger volume of alcohol to produce as much energy as gasoline. Which means, larger injectors, higher flowing fuel pump, and in some cases larger fuel lines as well.

Alcohol is generally used in much higher compression ratio engines, like funny cars and top fuel dragsters. The higher octane rating of alcohol allows much higher compression ratios, which of course makes maw powah!

 

[warmonger]

are you talking alch. injection? like washer fluid? if so there's certainly a gain to be had there.

 

[Bob Gervais]

I dunno. It sounded to me at first like he was talking about using alcohol fuel. Not sure whether he meant E85, straight alcohol like funny cars, or alcohol injection to keep combustion chamber temps down.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well I never was considering E85. Think "Olds Turbo Rocket Fluid"... Sorry I'm not more knowledgable, but its a water meth mix. I know they were messing around with that stuff way back in the 30's and 40's in supercharged F-190's. Not too sure how far the germans got with it. But one thing I found said they increased the HP of their radial engine from 2000 HP, to over 3200.

There are a ton of dynamics in a fuel system I realize this... I'm just wondering if the Eco-Boost is already "tweaked" as far as fuel goes.


Direct injection is all new to me... I'm just pickin your brains... Wanna see someone tear the steel cords out of their tires..

 

[jedhead]

You are talking about methanol-water injection. During WW2 many aircraft engines that were supercharged or turbosupercharged used methanol-water injection to increase power by
1. Cooling the air going into the engine after compression
2. Cooling the supercharger to increase efficiency
2. Adding fuel and oxider into the engine at high altitude

If I was to add a pulley to my STS-V pushing my supercharger speed to its limits, I would add methanol-water injection to cool the supercharger blades.
The Germans also used nitrous oxide to boost the power in the ME109.

Bob

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well, I was thinking of the idea of cooling the intake charge... but I would imagine it would turn to steam next to the turbos... then again, it would be under pressure so maybe not...

And yea, the F-190 is one of those WW2 engines I was reffering to. Not sure where else they used em.

 

[yamahaSHO]

I have been running water/methenol injection on my SHO since 2005. It was worked great for an added safety factor. Without tuning for it, it WILL take away power; however, it will give you the ability to run more boost and timing.

 

[beefcake]

I have been running water/methenol injection on my SHO since 2005. It was worked great for an added safety factor. Without tuning for it, it WILL take away power; however, it will give you the ability to run more boost and timing.

my 06 gt i did a homeade procharger kit, with no intercooler

the meth (washer fluid) would drop iat temps 40-50 degrees worked very well

 

[SHODWN]

Sorry for not knowing much about this but are you guys saying that your spraying washer fluid (smurf ****) into the intake to cool the charge?

 

[beefcake]

Sorry for not knowing much about this but are you guys saying that your spraying washer fluid (smurf ****) into the intake to cool the charge?

yep!, it's a less concentrate of methanol, pure meth would give even better results, but pretty expensive then you have to have another container as well

tapping into the washer reservoir is pretty easy

you can set the snow kit up to be boost activated as well

 

[Bob Gervais]

Sorry for not knowing much about this but are you guys saying that your spraying washer fluid (smurf ****) into the intake to cool the charge?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)

Yes. A while back, when Brad was building his 5 speed Duratec Taurus he was playing around with something else too, water induction, which was a vacuum based system. At the time, I thought the vacuum based system seemed safer. Imagine if your water injection pump doesn't turn off when you shut the car down!

I don't know if he ever got anything done with it though.

 

[Bob Gervais]

http://www.snowperformance.net/

Snow Performance company that Terry referred to. Judging by the boost gauge on their home page, their stuff will let you run like 45 psi of boost.

 

[yamahaSHO]

My setup uses a two-stage process. A smaller nozzle is activated at 2 PSI and the larger nozzle is activated at 9 PSI (at which both nozzles are running).

I have used washer fluid, distilled water and boost juice. You have to be careful with some of the washer fluids as some of them can contain chemicals that will eat away pumps and seals. I'm on my third pump after figuring this out. Also, windshield washer fluid can vary GREATLY in it's content of methenol between brands. Boost Juice is 49% meth/51% water and is my favorite. Distilled water is significantly cheaper and easier to get.

Lower intake temps is a huge benefit to water/meth injection, however, meth will raise the overall octane of the fuel and water will slow combustion. Both help in keeping pistons in one piece.

 

[Eric VerValin]

So in the end this might be a fesiable (sp?) mod?

Not necessarly "safe" by any means for sure.... welll safe if you watch your guages I suppose...