3 Bar Map Sensor

[TonyTheTIger57]

I searched for info on the 3 bar Map sensor and did not come up with anything. I would love to know if anyone has done this modification and what type of difference it made, how much more boost you got and how much it effects gas mileage? I know you have to get a tune after doing this, I heard it will let you take the boost up a few more notches also. Any info would help on the subject. If there is a thread on here that I passed up just post a link here )

 

[Fishrising]

I'm sure Ecobrick Bob will chime in, I believe he has done this, along with an appropriate tune and other mods.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Think this has been discussed before. Look for Darelli & my posts.

I have been running one since Feb-Mar. It allows boost up to a theoretical 29.4 psi of boost vs. 14.7 lbs boost for a 2-bar sensor. There are several limitations that don't allow this. #1. the turbos are too small. #2. the DI (direct injection pump) is incapable of delivering enough fuel to keep FRP (Fuel Rail Pressures) high enough to limit possible lean conditions. The air/fuel mixture is represented on both banks of the engine by Lambda numbers. They are decimal numbers as related to 14.7 to 1 . While the ideal combustion number is around 13.5 to 1 (.92 Lambda), this is far too lean in a high boost turbo engine, especially when the intake air gets really hot under high boost. A conservative tune likely doesn't exceed 11.5 to one or .80 Lambdas on both banks A 12.0 to one rate is .82 lambda and a 12.5 to one is .85.

Also, the knock sensor plays a big part, as it automatically de-tunes the engine if it senses knock.

You cannot run a 2 bar tune with a 3 bar sensor or vice versa. I don't worry about fuel mileage, but from my driving habits, I don't think it makes a great deal of difference, simply because one does not see much boost in normal driving.

Based on both my experiences with this engine, and discussions I have with other EB owners with tuned vehicles and the comments of their tuners, I believe that a W/M or 100% Methanol Spray system should be installed and working properly, before one goes with the 3 bar sensor. Once the intake temps are cooled via W/M, only then should you be considering higher boost, than that available with a 2 bar sensor.

Also, whenever you do any WOT runs, either for fun or at the strip, you should be logging your runs with SCT Livelink 6.4 or another engine logging software. Your tuner should be able to provide you with what he thinks are the most important variables to log.

 

[darreli]

Well put Bob....couldn't agree more

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

We are open to questions.....

Definitely need to "Trust" your tuner, and hopefully understand (that's me) what your tuner is doing with your tune.

Darreli is very lucky... he lives close to Livernois, and has been instrumental in their tunes for the SHO & EB engines.

I have dealt with both Livernois & Torrie @ Unleashed Tuning. Both are some of the best at tuning our cars. While most of my miles are using Torrie's tunes, I have run Livernois stage 4 for over 1K. Runs great.

Because of my location in FL & IA, Torrie has worked with me, fine tuning my car. Both the W/M system & 3 Bar sensor came from him. He reviews my logs & fine tweaks the tune.

 

[kgupton123456]

look at this site

http://www.fastpartsnetwork.com/content/view/42/29/

they sell one and I belleive they will give an tune also, but I beleive the tune is still not as fast as the Liverois's tunes

 

[Fishrising]

look at this site

http://www.fastpartsnetwork.com/content/view/42/29/

they sell one and I belleive they will give an tune also, but I beleive the tune is still not as fast as the Liverois's tunes

That's Torrie's site (Unleashed Tuning). I am running his "max boost +60whp" tune right now, which is quite quick. I also have the Livernois stage IV 94 octane tune. Seat of my pants tells me they are both quick. Which is quicker I couldn't tell you, as I have not dyno'd them side by side nor drag'd them side by side either.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

look at this site

http://www.fastpartsnetwork.com/content/view/42/29/

they sell one and I belleive they will give an tune also, but I beleive the tune is still not as fast as the Liverois's tunes

WRONGO....... Don't speculate on something you know NOTHING about.

With a 3 Bar sensor and the vehicle tuned accordingly, there is no way a car running about 14 lbs of boost is faster than one that can boost upwards of 20 PSI. Torries efforts with my Brick, the 3-bar tune etc, is a half second faster than before. I have yet to see a Flex with Livernois tunes go faster than 13.5. If there is one out there, please come forward.

I have Livernois tunes, including stage 4. They are very capable mail-order tunes. NO Complaints.

The big difference in using Torrie vs. Livernois, is that Torrie will tweak your tunes if you are using his W/M system & 3 Bar Sensor, till it is most effective. Log/Tune/Log/Tune - over and over.

To get the most out of Livernois, you need to take your car to them and have it Dyno'd, like Darreli does. That's why he's so much faster than all the other SHO's to date.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

After reviewing my post, I would also like to point out that this thread was about 3 bar sensors. To date, Livernois has no canned tunes for them. Torrie individually tunes customer cars with W/M and 3 Bar sensors. There is no one size that fits all.

If you compare Torrie McPhail's "Boosted Tune" (60 HP Tune) and Livernois Stage 4 Tune, they are very similar and both are 2-Bar tunes. Both Torrie and Dan at Livernois are very reputable tuners. Both are very conservative in their canned tune offerings. In fact, Torrie first sent me the Stage 1, and slowly released the other 2 to me over a months time. Rick sent me all 4 at once because he knew I already had a tuned car.

What upset me about saying one or the other had a faster tune, was that neither would ever tell you theirs was faster or better etc. If you want a faster vehicle, you need to either have your car Dyno tuned by a reputable tuner, or work with a tuner on line, who will evaluate your logging data, and incrementally add tune to your vehicle. EcoBoost Engines are not simple to tune, because of the many variables, and somewhat new (Direct Injection) technology, at least for many tuners. Also... remember that faster is not always more reliable.

Lastly, if Dan Millen were driving and tuning my car, it would be faster, simply because he is a great driver, and can interpret what he feels and adjust the car accordingly. The same would happen if Torrie or Rick were behind the wheel.

Now me... I'm just a 65 year old NEWBY boy racer who can go slightly faster in forward than in reverse.....But... I'm having FUN! Next week, I have decided to take the ultimate plunge and put the car in "R" for Race...