‘10 to’17 brake swap help

[LilCop2002]

As stated in the General Discussion thread, I’m having some troubles with my ‘10 SHO to ‘17 PI brakes swap.

I changed everything below:
Master Cylinder
Brake Booster
Fresh Fluid swap/flush
Front/Rear Hoses with Banjo Bolts/washers
Front/Rear Calipers
Front/Rear Rotors

Car’s brakes were functioning properly prior to R&R of system.

I have checked, double, and triple checked all connections with zero signs of leaks/damage and proper reassembly.

Initially I bench bled the master cylinder prior to installing. It appeared to work as needed with no leaks and no signs of air in system. I then used my mightvac to bleed the brakes at the calipers.

The rear bleeders could not get a good deal and kept sucking air around the threads so I pulled them and wrapped them with a small amount of Teflon tape... there was no change and The fronts bled without a problem leading me to believe it was the rear.

After several attempts at bleeding all corners several times I gave up, cleaned up, and hit Google. All research showed I was doing it right so I called it a night.

This afternoon I checked all connections and fluid level which all checked out correct. I connected the hoses to the bleeders without the mightvac connected and did the whole elevate the reservoir, pump/hold pedal, crack/secure bleeder while watching bubbles, and topped fluid. By doing it this way, I eliminated the tiny bubbling at the bleeder threads and got lots of air from the system and brand new fluid into the reservoir with no leaks/issues.

All said, the last thing I can think of might be air in the ABS module keeping me from getting the air out and a firm brake pedal. If the collective knowledge of this crew doesn’t see anything I’m doing wrong, my dude at Firestone will get her Saturday morning.

Thanks.

 

[xFallenxCripplex]

Abs maybe the issue there is a way to use forscan to help with this issue I have read.
Search for forscan abs bleed
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Kevin81]

The tried and true method is to have a buddy pump the breaks 10 times, push down as hard as possible, and on time number 10, hold it, and you open and close the bleeder very quickly. Do this until just brake fluid comes gushing out. Start at the calipers farthest from the MC, and work your way closer...so, it should be rear passenger, rear driver, front passenger, then front driver.

Is pedal is still spongy...then there is still air in the MC. Or some other issue beyond my exp.

 

[FiveLeeter918]

use Forscan or IDS to bleed the abs module. Sounds like you just have a ton of air trapped.

 

[LilCop2002]

The tried and true method is to have a buddy pump the breaks 10 times, push down as hard as possible, and on time number 10, hold it, and you open and close the bleeder very quickly. Do this until just brake fluid comes gushing out. Start at the calipers farthest from the MC, and work your way closer...so, it should be rear passenger, rear driver, front passenger, then front driver.

Is pedal is still spongy...then there is still air in the MC. Or some other issue beyond my exp.

After the bubbling bleeders attached to the vacuum, that's exactly what I switched to doing. I got plenty of air out of the lines but still spongy.

 

[LilCop2002]

use Forscan or IDS to bleed the abs module. Sounds like you just have a ton of air trapped.

That's kind of what I thought... Never having used FORscan, I guess this is as good a time as any to fix my ride while learning and saving time/money.

I'll DL it this afternoon.

 

[luigisho]

Post back with success or failure. Always good to have a thread to the end of the story for someone with issues to search later

 

[LilCop2002]

So...

After getting home this afternoon, I:

1) checked all connection for leaks with no leaks found;
2) checked all hardware for proper orientation with no issues found;
3) downloaded FORScan to my laptop;
4) connected laptop to car via OBDLink MX+;
5) ran all diagnostics without errors;
6) followed the guidance for the ABS Bleed... completely effed the Left Front process up with a bunch of brake fluid all over the ground;
7) ran to the store and purchased 2 quarts of brake fluid;
8) carefully followed the FORScan ABS Bleed prompts 3x while ensuring reservoir stayed full and felt a decently firm pedal most of the process;
9) disconnected hose, checked bleeders for tightness/leaks, and replaced caps;
10) started vehicle and felt an initially firm pedal leading to a near floor push and subsequent soft, spongy pedal;
11) emptied ABS bled fluid from drain pan back into the 2 empty quart bottles... got nearly 2 quarts back in them. Accounting for spilled brake fluid and remainder in the hose, etc. I feel confident the nearly full bottles reflect not having a leak from the master cylinder into the brake booster that I couldn't see and no leaks on items I swapped;
12) buttoned it back up, put the tires back on, and lowered her to the ground;
13) called it a night with no ability to hold car in place while in drive and cold idling.

The biggest thing that I can think of is that the ABS bleeding process with the brake pedal pumping at 2 second intervals process is being messed up on my end as a '17 PI sitting in the driveway matching every single bit of the '10's new system is identical in fit, finish, and proper orientation. ****, they're nearly a mirror image of each other.

I'm giving it a break for the evening and I'll do some more research to determine if I can ID what I'm screwing up/missing.

 

[Johnbigdog]

If you just pump the brakes key off does the pedal get rock hard when you press it? If not there is still air in the system.

In the what dis you do section, I typed up a good do it yourself bleed procedure that I have used successfully myself.

 

[LilCop2002]

Thanks for the reply! I responded to your reply but I basically did exactly what you identified.

After getting this question, I went outside and pumped the brakes with key/engine off. Evidently I still have air in the system as the pedal was initially firm but a few pumps never made it stiff.

 

[luigisho]

You're sure it's not bleeding into the booster? No pinholes anywhere? no collapsed rubber lines (which you can't really see as they deform inside usually)?

 

[LilCop2002]

You're sure it's not bleeding into the booster? No pinholes anywhere? no collapsed rubber lines (which you can't really see as they deform inside usually)?

All of these are possible issues but not easily diagnosed on my end.

As pointed out in 11 above, I don't think a leak into the brake booster is likely because the amount of fluid being flushed out of calipers appears to be the same amount short of spillage and residuals in drainage hose into drain pan and drain pan.

Not sure about the pinholes.

The collapsed rubber hose is possible but consid all the hoses from wheel well fixed lines to calipers are all new.

 

[luigisho]

Other than trapped air, bad MC?

 

[LilCop2002]

Other than trapped air, bad MC?

Possible... but they are new OEM motorcraft BB and MC. I'll have to find test procedures for both to fully eliminate either of them.

 

[luigisho]

Might be easier to eat the cost and have a garage with all the equip to bleed them to include the abs system

 

[LilCop2002]

Might be easier to eat the cost and have a garage with all the equip to bleed them to include the abs system

That's my stance as of now. I paid for the parts, did 95% of the labor, and used my skills/tools to the best of my ability but most importantly, it's eating up too much family time.

I have a good relationship with the service manager at my Firestone and a single mechanic to work on anything I bring in so I'll let them do the fine tuning and let me enjoy the family and dogs. Besides the quote I received previously was $99 for the flush and ABS bleed which is well worth the hassle and the safety.

 

[LilCop2002]

On another note, doing the work made several hours of working with music and beer a relaxing time for me.

Taking Lee's advice and actually using FORScan opened Pandoras box.

 

[luigisho]

the quote I received previously was $99 for the flush and ABS bleed which is well worth the hassle and the safety.

That was my line of thinking. Sometimes it's the challenge to do it and other times it's a time vs cost equation

 

[LilCop2002]

View media item 653
Went ahead and let Firestone have her. We shall see and I'll follow up.

Dont mind the janky-ass overspray on the tires. My son wanted to try his hand and they still look a lot better than they used to.

 

[LilCop2002]

Sorry for delay. I forgot about responding until my neighbor from somewhere in the neighborhood stopped to ask about the calipers being blue. Turns out he was a wholesale parts guy at the dealership that services my work car.

He LOLd and ask if I caught **** with the ABS module bleeding. It's almost like he knew the hassle associated with it.

Firestone got the system bled properly and it's got about 50 miles on it. They feel much better than the '10 brakes did prior to the R&R but not nearly as solid as the '17 work car. I'll give it some more time and reattack the issue if it get worse.