shobote
SHO Member
Good point; all things being equal, I would be very surprised if more wear would not occur with a motor that is run at such high RPM though, as oiling is not as effective as temps increase / viscosities decrease.
SHO me some heads!
- Thread starter supra dave
- Start date
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Good point; all things being equal, I would be very surprised if more wear would not occur with a motor that is run at such high RPM though, as oiling is not as effective as temps increase / viscosities decrease.
That doesn't make any sense to me. What keeps me from having him do the work and then somebody else flow bench it? Flow bench data is vital proof that his head will make more hp over stock. I would love to support this awsome idea, but not if data is hidden from the communtiy.
supra dave
New Member
this is true but im not going to push the matter as long as there is the hp to prove his work is good. if you can get 45 even 55hp i wouldnt care that he would put out his secrets because what eve he did works. thats the prof every one wants. he did tell me that he dose like the high velocity port jobs tho. this will be a project of great proportions if it works like i know it will. im a super exited to be working with mister gude. i would have to say his work proves his passion. the only thing is if there isnt a 45hp gain then i would say this hole thread is a flop. but i know its not going to be because he will work till we reach that magic 50 to 55.
There will be a diffinent increase in engine temp as piston crown temperatures climb ever higher with each additional rpm. I wouldn't be surprised if wear was increased. Should still last awhile...
egroce11
New Member
I was interested in this project and was thinking about offering a set of heads but, if he isn't willing to share his flow numbers than I wouldn't trust his work, ****, I can take heads clean them up tell you that I did all this work, let you put them on and when they didn't work the way you thought say oh well I guess the work was for nothing. He would have to match my flow numbers before I would pay him. The man might be great but flow numbers are not super secret. What he does might be but flow numbers not.
shobot is right oil and oiling is a major problem running these motors above 8,000 rpm very long.
Ernie
I really don't know anything about this motor, but I'm willing to learn.
shobot is right oil and oiling is a major problem running these motors above 8,000 rpm very long.
Ernie
I really don't know anything about this motor, but I'm willing to learn.
reverberation step...
If I where to guess what he is talking about it would be a "step header like design" only the reverse going into the cylinder. Very intreging when you think about it...? How would you apply it to the SHO you may ask?
If I where to take a stab at it, the step in a SHO would be located at the mating surface between the cylinder head and intake manifold. The intake manifold port size would be smaller than the head port creating a lip. The gases would flow from the smaller port to the larger port no problem, not hurting flow.
What this would help is reversion because of the intake valve closing and halting the incoming air. As the pressure wave would travel from the valve back up the intake tube the "newly" installed lip would help reflect the wave, probably a certain percentage sooner, Anybody recall the AEM v2 intake? Or, are very own 55mm MAF is designed with a offset hole to reflect the intake wave and reduce intake noise. This could change the ram charging with are intake design either for better or worse, it could be awsome!
If I where to guess what he is talking about it would be a "step header like design" only the reverse going into the cylinder. Very intreging when you think about it...? How would you apply it to the SHO you may ask?
If I where to take a stab at it, the step in a SHO would be located at the mating surface between the cylinder head and intake manifold. The intake manifold port size would be smaller than the head port creating a lip. The gases would flow from the smaller port to the larger port no problem, not hurting flow.
What this would help is reversion because of the intake valve closing and halting the incoming air. As the pressure wave would travel from the valve back up the intake tube the "newly" installed lip would help reflect the wave, probably a certain percentage sooner, Anybody recall the AEM v2 intake? Or, are very own 55mm MAF is designed with a offset hole to reflect the intake wave and reduce intake noise. This could change the ram charging with are intake design either for better or worse, it could be awsome!
Why do you think oiling is the problem? Is #5 at the end of the oil route?
supra dave
New Member
in other word yes. if everything is "engineered" even further with the SHO head, that would be the step.all most like an airplane wing, if you may, so all the air ends up at the same place at the same time to make "lift"(aka HP). you, sir, have helped this post out greatly. thank you.
egroce11
New Member
From what I've been able to follow the oil route #5 is at the end, The last motor I went to the perma cool oil filters, the dual filter system and I lost #5 on it also. The engine before that the lower end was tweeked just a bit but I ran it a lot at or above 8,500 rpm's and had no trouble. I really believe the perma cool system was just slowing the oil down to much to do the #5 rod.
This new engine will be minus the dual oil filters.
Sorry for the hi-jack.
Ernie
I will have the Nissan record
It's not so much the #5 rod as it would be from the passages entering the mains/crank. The passage Pat and I found to have less air pressure when charged (on multiple blocks) was probably between the #5 and #3 rod (if I'm picturing this right). Although that passage exhibited less flow than the other 3, all 4 should be keeping the pressure/flow in the crank fairly even. At high RPM/demand, there is a possibility that it's just not able to keep up and that is where it is noticed first. Have you check the main nearest the #5 rod after your failures?
Mike Kopstain
New Member
Dave, what don't you understand about "It can't be done"? You're not going to all of the sudden find more power that people have missed all these years and to be frank I don't think that YOU specifically will find anything because it sounds like your knowledge is lacking and your relying solely on someone else's word. At this point I get the feeling he could tell you your car would do jumping jacks and you'd be sitting here telling us how great it's going to be.
It's just not going to happen. Don't waste your money. Take the advice of those here that have been there and done that. If you insist on watching your money circle the porcelain throne then at least educate yourself enough to know what questions to ask and to be able to provide a response other than "this guy really knows what he's doing". The problem with that response is that you offer no specific information which leads me to assume that it's because you don't know in which case why should I trust you to tell me that you're going to accomplish something no one else has. Furthermore, why do YOU even buy into your own reasoning?
Trust me, as someone who's not known anything and relied solely on the excitement and confidence of third party vendors to do my research and development (it's how I started Midwest SHO), these things always end up in failure. The person always thinks they can do something no one else can, they always fail, and then when they fail they always have a justification for doing so. You will not get 55hp out of the heads; you won't get 35 and most likely not even 25...
With regards to flow bench numbers, I don't blame him for not wanting to give any out. Flow bench numbers are like jewelry appraisals. You can give the same head to two different flow bench operators and get two completely different numbers. Posting flow bench numbers is a surefire way to get scrutinized by everyone who thinks they know better...
Ernie, I haven't been following your car though I do remember it from the last few months I had Midwest SHO. I thought it was awesome to see someone trying to retake the title. Did you ever beat Ransom's number?
I wouldn't go as far as "it cant be done." Granted many things have been done in the past, but what were talking about here is alot of money and research to achieve this goal. Remember only probably 80% of SHO owners will ever mod there cars, 5% would probably go as far as cams, 5% blowers/turbo's, 1% All out N/A. 99% of those people would pick a cheaper and easier route for more power, 1% with a abosolute passion for the SHO will choose the hard road.
Nothing impossible, and I am gald to see the spirit in a dwindling population of the SHO group. I for one only believe we barely touched the potential of the SHO engine.
I think its a simple matter of running out of oil - according to SHOtimes, the oil pump delivers 12.1 gpm @ 6400 rpm - so it pumps the entire 5 qts every 9-10 seconds! At 8500 rpm, its every 5-6 seconds - I'm guessing the oil just can't drain back off the heads, etc. fast enough to keep full flow at that speed. This would suggest that a dry sump and/or expanded capacity would help significantly in that regard.
Brett
SHOs before HOs
If guy wants to do it, let him. He's already been warned by plenty of knowledgeable members here. Its his money and it works out, great, if not, shit happens and dudes out 1k+.
I will say im sure theres been more then once or twice, when thee entire forum has said "not possible, not gonna happen" and it did. I just dont think this is one of those times, at least not 55hp.
Cheaper/easier route in comparison to cams, or boost, i really dont think so.
You could build your own turbo kit for the price quoted and put down alot more then 55 more hp. For the price quoted you could also buy a y-pipe and a nitrous kit and likely put down more power, for cheaper. I just dont think in anyway would this be easier/cheaper. It just doesn't make sense unless you want a strictly NA powerhouse. The money would be better spent elsewhere, these motors take so well to boost if you want serious power aside from the norm bolt ons it would be the cheapest/easiest route IMO.
I will say im sure theres been more then once or twice, when thee entire forum has said "not possible, not gonna happen" and it did. I just dont think this is one of those times, at least not 55hp.
Cheaper/easier route in comparison to cams, or boost, i really dont think so.
You could build your own turbo kit for the price quoted and put down alot more then 55 more hp. For the price quoted you could also buy a y-pipe and a nitrous kit and likely put down more power, for cheaper. I just dont think in anyway would this be easier/cheaper. It just doesn't make sense unless you want a strictly NA powerhouse. The money would be better spent elsewhere, these motors take so well to boost if you want serious power aside from the norm bolt ons it would be the cheapest/easiest route IMO.
egroce11
New Member
Thanks Jason I remember you said that before and the machinist is going to open that passage on the next engine or this one if I have to completely rebuild. The mains are prestine, no damage.
Mike: We don't know what the top speed was this time out. The first run after Lance and Ransom got a tune Ransom missed a gear and he stated it took him 15 seconds to get going again, he went thru the traps at 162.*** mph.
The next run the engine developed a noise around the 2 3/4 mile and he wasn't able to continue under power, he crossed the lights at 163.44 mph. We know he had some serious speed going and would have been close or over his time. These runs were at 5,000 and 6,000 ft. density altitude.
rubydist: Thanks I know alot of oil flow at that rpm, weopened some of the passages and the pressure was around 50 to 60 psi when the bearing went. I want to do the dry sump system but I haven't found the way to do it on this engine yet. I put the perma cool system on to carry the extra oil but it didn't work.
illshoyou: Your right I don't think we have seen the full potentual of these engines either.
Ernie
I've got a zex kit but haven't installed it.
Mike: We don't know what the top speed was this time out. The first run after Lance and Ransom got a tune Ransom missed a gear and he stated it took him 15 seconds to get going again, he went thru the traps at 162.*** mph.
The next run the engine developed a noise around the 2 3/4 mile and he wasn't able to continue under power, he crossed the lights at 163.44 mph. We know he had some serious speed going and would have been close or over his time. These runs were at 5,000 and 6,000 ft. density altitude.
rubydist: Thanks I know alot of oil flow at that rpm, weopened some of the passages and the pressure was around 50 to 60 psi when the bearing went. I want to do the dry sump system but I haven't found the way to do it on this engine yet. I put the perma cool system on to carry the extra oil but it didn't work.
illshoyou: Your right I don't think we have seen the full potentual of these engines either.
Ernie
I've got a zex kit but haven't installed it.
BlackonBlack89
SHO Member
Ernie I think u should try and found out who this is and get some info from him. I will let the pics explain.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2969714
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2969714
egroce11
New Member
BlackonBlack89
SHO Member
victorymike18
New Member
That's some very interesting work. I love the radiused entries from the plenum to the runners.
The head work is very extensive. I would imagine that all the work to enlarge the communication area between the primary and secondary ports will negate much of the purpose of the long (small diameter) primary runners. On the other hand, the larger secondary runner looks like it has a much better distribution to both intake valves.
I would love to know more about this work. Who is doing it?
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