rear proportioning valve and ingalls adj. arms

[rudedog]

I have a '93 GL with NO ABS, that I just installed a set of 94-95 knuckles onto, with the Mustang GT calipers. I have also installed the rear adjustable lateral arms. I have been reading a lot of threads saying not to use the bias plugs. I know there have been some of you that have installed an after market proportioning valve in place of the stock valve block. Did the factory lines thread right in to the new valve, or did you have to re-flare the ends and get new fittings?? If they threaded right in, which brand did you use and where did you get it from?

I need to know if I have this correct.......when you apply the brake and the rear of the car raises then the valves CLOSE there fore lessening braking power?? If you weigh the vehicle down(fill trunk) then the valves OPEN giving full braking power?? If I were to zip tie the flapper to the factory block, it would OPEN the valves and give me full braking power, but I have also read that this may not be such a hot idea either, WHY NOT?? Wouldn't you rather have full braking power at all times??

Using an after market block and or zip tying the flapper are other ideas I am contemplating, at the moment, I am still trying to adapt the stock bracket to the new lateral arms. Thanks in advance for any advise, Rudy.

 

[SHO Dude]

You've got the operation of the proportioning valve correct. But the issue with the plugs is that full pressure is applied to the rear brakes at all times. This make the rear tires lock at will. The idea is that the ABS will prevent lockup. The problem comes from the ABS not being accurate enough and messing with the other corners.

On our Adjustable Aluminum Control Arms, we provide a bracket so that the factory proportioning valve can still be used with the new arms.

One thing to note: If you're gonna put an adjustable proportioning valve in the back, you'll need 2 of them. There are two sides to control and they are independent of one another.

 

[Shoaz]

Wouldn't you rather have full braking power at all times??

Not in the rear. Under hard braking weight transfers off the rear and onto the front (which is why the rear raises and the nose dives), and that makes it easy for the rear brakes to lock up. When the rear brakes lock it becomes difficult to keep the car from swapping ends (i.e., spinning).

Since you don't have ABS the bias plugs aren't a good idea for this reason. With the BMR arms (which are similar to the Ingalls arms that you have) I took the bracket off the old factor arms and formed it around a pipe with the same diameter as the arm. Some pipe clamps held it in place and it only took a little bit of adjustment to get it working nicely.

 

[JEM]

Since you don't have ABS the bias plugs aren't a good idea for this reason.

Even with ABS it's not a good idea, since once you're into the ABS you're not capable of modulating maximum-effort braking anymore.

 

[NJSHO]

Not in the rear. Under hard braking weight transfers off the rear and onto the front (which is why the rear raises and the nose dives), and that makes it easy for the rear brakes to lock up. When the rear brakes lock it becomes difficult to keep the car from swapping ends (i.e., spinning).

Since you don't have ABS the bias plugs aren't a good idea for this reason. With the BMR arms (which are similar to the Ingalls arms that you have) I took the bracket off the old factor arms and formed it around a pipe with the same diameter as the arm. Some pipe clamps held it in place and it only took a little bit of adjustment to get it working nicely.

Pictures Please

 

[Power Surge]

So why are the bias plugs sold if they are such a bad idea? I just got a set today from SHOBros. My main reason was to bypass my bias valve since it's totally shot. I guess I could replace it, but figured the bias valves would do the trick. Now it sounds like I shouldn't use them??

 

[DemonNeno]

So why are the bias plugs sold if they are such a bad idea? I just got a set today from SHOBros. My main reason was to bypass my bias valve since it's totally shot. I guess I could replace it, but figured the bias valves would do the trick. Now it sounds like I shouldn't use them??

If you have ABS, it's a hit or miss on whether you'll like them. They will supply full pressure until the ABS kicks them off the pressure. NON ABS cars shouldn't dare mess with something like this w/o a proportioning valve.

The current post regarding the brembo's has touched this very same subject about proportioning valves.

 

[rudedog]

Shoaz posted: With the BMR arms (which are similar to the Ingalls arms that you have) I took the bracket off the old factor arms and formed it around a pipe with the same diameter as the arm. Some pipe clamps held it in place and it only took a little bit of adjustment to get it working nicely.

This is basically what I'm doing, I knew I had read it here somewhere, but I could not find it in the search. I was going to weld it, but that seems too much of a PITA to cut it off every time you need an alignment. Also, I bought the Ingall's bars, whereas we got the BMR bars for my brother's car. We're going to do a real good comparison between the two since the suspensions on the two cars will be identical.
I didn't have any one to help me bleed the brakes today, so I installed the front TPR strut rod bushings, then it started raining. I'll get some pictures on how I end up doing this, maybe it'll help others. If there are some pics floating around of other set-ups that have utilized the stock set-up with the adj. arms I'd love to see them, post 'em up!!!!!

 

[JEM]

So why are the bias plugs sold if they are such a bad idea? I just got a set today from SHOBros. My main reason was to bypass my bias valve since it's totally shot. I guess I could replace it, but figured the bias valves would do the trick. Now it sounds like I shouldn't use them??

When you say the bias valve is 'totally shot', how do you know that?

As for the plugs...given the right front caliper piston sizes, enough weight off the nose, enough anti-dive in the front suspension, and maybe even Mustang rear calipers with smaller pistons, it might be possible to use full line pressure to the rear brakes without creating a nasty lockup situation.

I know that in everything I've tried to do on my '91s with the Baer 2x38mm PBR front calipers and stock rear calipers, plugs have led to scary-quick rear brake lockup (and once again ABS is NOT, repeat NOT, a substitute for proper brake balance.)

I may try them again once I get the Gen 3 subframe in the car, and maybe change the front/rear caliper piston size relationship.

 

[Power Surge]

When you say the bias valve is 'totally shot', how do you know that?

As for the plugs...given the right front caliper piston sizes, enough weight off the nose, enough anti-dive in the front suspension, and maybe even Mustang rear calipers with smaller pistons, it might be possible to use full line pressure to the rear brakes without creating a nasty lockup situation.

I know that in everything I've tried to do on my '91s with the Baer 2x38mm PBR front calipers and stock rear calipers, plugs have led to scary-quick rear brake lockup (and once again ABS is NOT, repeat NOT, a substitute for proper brake balance.)

I may try them again once I get the Gen 3 subframe in the car, and maybe change the front/rear caliper piston size relationship.

So basically what everyone is saying is..... I should not be using them with my stock braked 90 SHO.

 

[SHO Dude]

So basically what everyone is saying is..... I should not be using them with my stock braked 90 SHO.

I'd recommend proper adjustment of the factory valve. It's there for a reason. There was only one valve for disc or drum brake cars. They are adjusted the same from the factory, so the adjustment is based on the function of drum brake cars. With disc brakes, the valve can be adjusted properly to take into consideration the action of a disc brake versus a drum brake. It will make the car much more stable.

If your valve is toast, replace it. They are cheap. We sell them for just under $100.

If you're considering control arms, remember that our original Adjustable aluminum Control Arm Kits have a bracket for the valve.

Don't use the plugs, don't bypass the valve, make the parts on your car work properly.

 

[rudedog]

Ok, I've got the bracket bolted back onto the bar. Is there any one that knows how much "tension" the spring on the rod should be under???

 

[NWGRN94MTX]

Ok, I've got the bracket bolted back onto the bar. Is there any one that knows how much "tension" the spring on the rod should be under???

I don't have it on the top of my head, but the factory manual has the step by step. I know it a very narrow window you have to adjust it too.

 

[rudedog]

Yeah, thanks, I looked that up in the CD and found it to be 16.3mm
The problem now is that it STILL locks up very easily, should I decrease the rod length to decrease the "pressure"????

 

[crazy_canadian]

Yup you should adjust it and try again, until your front brakes locks up before the rear ones.

 

[rudedog]

OK, I got a couple of pics for the u-bolt set-up. I first took the stock bracket and put it in vise and hammered it around a socket the same size as the bars. Then installed it onto the bar. I have adjusted it to the 16.3mm spec in the Ford Service CD, but, it still seems to lock up a bit too easily. I will have to play with it some more after I get the rear S.S. brake lines installed and aligned.

the whole deal, Ingall's bars, TPR bushings, and 96GL rear disk conversion.

set to 16.3mm

 

[LOUDSHO92]

Looks good!

So Doug what is used on Gen3/4 for propotioning of the rear?

 

[Call_Me_crazy]

My rear looks better even on Stands! lol!!!!

 

[DemonNeno]

Looks good!

So Doug what is used on Gen3/4 for propotioning of the rear?

i thought they were all the same as the gen 1 & 2?

 

[LOUDSHO92]

They are not, that much I know, for at least the Gen4.