EPP Hotpipe With Tial BOV, vacuum reference for BOV?!

[Conquest351]

Hey y'all. I have a 2014 SHO and I'm installing some EPP Hotpipes. These have the Tial BOV and I'm trying to figure out the best place to tap in for the vacuum reference for the BOV. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!!

Oh, it does have a GH tune and plugs and MAP and all that. Matt was pretty sure deleting the factory BOVs wouldn't set a light. I had seen where someone had to leave one attached, just not installed? Any help is appreciated.

 

[yaycandy]

2nd page.
https://www.ecoboostperformanceforu...d4a121a73ab9d236c9233309550fc07&topic=2368.15

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

This was the way I skinned the cat, but there are many:

Or you could do this, but I don't think I'd recommend doing it while it's on the engine. A few tapped vacuum/boost access points. This is the manifold I'm installing when I get the truck back from the shop:

 

[FiveLeeter918]

I prefer the TurboSmart MAP adapter.

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

I prefer the TurboSmart MAP adapter.

Well, damn...just took the wind outta my sails, LOL. Never knew that even existed, even better option haha! Oh well...

 

[stripSHO]

Can someone please explain the point of these BOVs? I'm trying to wrap my head around it but all I see these as are flashy performance downgrades.

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

Can someone please explain the point of these BOVs? I'm trying to wrap my head around it but all I see these as are flashy performance downgrades.

Flashy? Yes. Upgrade? Not likey. Downgrade? Please elaborate.

 

[stripSHO]

Flashy? Yes. Upgrade? Not likey. Downgrade? Please elaborate.

It’s just that the factory BOVs are programmed to operate against the actual surge line of the turbos at any operating point, rather than just one arbitrary pressure differential. Whether or not it makes any practical difference I don’t know, but on paper that seems like a downgrade to me. Unless the factory BOVs can’t support larger turbos but I haven’t read anything to that effect.

 

[SM105K]

It’s just that the factory BOVs are programmed to operate against the actual surge line of the turbos at any operating point, rather than just one arbitrary pressure differential. Whether or not it makes any practical difference I don’t know, but on paper that seems like a downgrade to me. Unless the factory BOVs can’t support larger turbos but I haven’t read anything to that effect.

I see this as an upgrade. I have always been told that the BOV needs to be as close to the TB as possible. This allows a more complete evacuation of the boost tract. I still don't understand why Ford would put two of them on the car. This seems like another item that will fail sooner or later and you are doubling the chances.....

In my head that one arbitrary pressure differential makes all the difference, bigger single point exit decreasing both compressor surge and TB surge.

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

I see this as an upgrade. I have always been told that the BOV needs to be as close to the TB as possible. This allows a more complete evacuation of the boost tract. I still don't understand why Ford would put two of them on the car. This seems like another item that will fail sooner or later and you are doubling the chances.....

In my head that one arbitrary pressure differential makes all the difference, bigger single point exit decreasing both compressor surge and TB surge.

This is how I feel about it as well. If nothing else, the electronic controlled factory BOVs feel like a possible failure point. An old school, if-it-ain't-broke, vacuum/boost source mechanically controlling the BOV just feels more of a prudent design and will either work, or not work...easy troubleshooting...

Being closer to the TB where that boosted air hits the equivalent of a "water hammer" when the plate closes just means that air doesn't have to go all the way back past a number of couplers, the IC and some piping before it finally exits safely. Of course, the air itself is "turning around" and travelling back, but the pressure wave is. IDK, I'm no fluid engineer so it's possible I'm way off base, but seems logical.

 

[SM105K]

^this is how was I taught how the BOV works as well.

 

[High on Ethanol]

As far as I can tell, it's just a pressure relief. Which means it doesn't matter where you put it.

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

As far as I can tell, it's just a pressure relief. Which means it doesn't matter where you put it.

Yeah, I might be diving too deep into this, but I know on water systems, any sort of hydrostatic shock (water hammer) mitigation device is typically placed in the piping immediately before the "fixture" that instigates the shock event, IE valves. Since air falls under the same laws as water as it relates to fluid dynamics and the TB is basically a valve, I'm just assuming the principles are the same. But I have a feeling there is no real world noticeable difference wherever its placed, otherwise the Ford engineers would have put them closer to the TB, so good chance you're right, in a real world application.

As I said, I'm no fluid engineer so can't really speak intelligently on the subject...any of you guys out there engineers feel like weighing in? Lol. It's a slow day at work and I love discussions like this...I usually end up learning something.

 

[GotGrip?]

Yeah, I might be diving too deep into this, but I know on water systems, any sort of hydrostatic shock (water hammer) mitigation device is typically placed in the piping immediately before the "fixture" that instigates the shock event, IE valves. Since air falls under the same laws as water as it relates to fluid dynamics and the TB is basically a valve, I'm just assuming the principles are the same. But I have a feeling there is no real world noticeable difference wherever its placed, otherwise the Ford engineers would have put them closer to the TB, so good chance you're right, in a real world application.

As I said, I'm no fluid engineer so can't really speak intelligently on the subject...any of you guys out there engineers feel like weighing in? Lol. It's a slow day at work and I love discussions like this...I usually end up learning something.

From my understanding it's simply to remove overall pressure, not evac the entire system of all air. Could be we are all over thinking this and it doesn't matter where it is, just "What looks coolest" lol

As for why there's 2, from what I've read one is a low pressure and one is a high pressure bov for different throttle positions/boost levels. Which seems stupid to me, but that's the info that was out there!

 

[High on Ethanol]

Welllll.... On the full race intercooler I ordered the BOV is on the intercooler itself...at the bottom.
This means it's dual purpose and self draining lol

 

[High on Ethanol]

My stock BOV is also on the intercooler but at the top... So... What does that mean for placement?

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

My stock BOV is also on the intercooler but at the top... So... What does that mean for placement?

Yeah, good chance I'm over thinking it as far as placement goes. Makes for an interesting discussion though.

But I'm not kidding myself that it's some great power adder. Regardless of where it's placed, for me, the fact it's being controlled directly by the boost/vacuum the vehicle is producing instead of being interpreted by a sensor, translated by the PCM and relayed to an actuator is good enough for me.

....oh, and yeah, it looks pretty cool, too lol.

 

[GotGrip?]

Yeah, good chance I'm over thinking it as far as placement goes. Makes for an interesting discussion though.

But I'm not kidding myself that it's some great power adder. Regardless of where it's placed, for me, the fact it's being controlled directly by the boost/vacuum the vehicle is producing instead of being interpreted by a sensor, translated by the PCM and relayed to an actuator is good enough for me.

....oh, and yeah, it looks pretty cool, too lol.

Actually come to think of it, location might matter on different types of vehicles. For example a turbo eclipse doesn't read air the same way our cars do, so it might need to be placed before or after a sensor or it could cause issues.

 

[FiveLeeter918]

Essentially it is just removing another potential leak path. Replacing two gaskets with one, removing two diaphragm bypass valves that are electronically activated with one single mechanical bov that is activated by a pressure differential.

When you increase boost, the bypass valves are known to tear and cause problems. So you're just looking at relieving potentail headaches down the road.

 

[FiveLeeter918]

Actually come to think of it, location might matter on different types of vehicles. For example a turbo eclipse doesn't read air the same way our cars do, so it might need to be placed before or after a sensor or it could cause issues.

speed density doesn't care, mass airflow most definitely does.