E85 70% ethanol octane rating

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4sfed

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Ok sorry...last question

When I'm calculating how much E85 to mix in, do I use the octane rating or the ethanol content for the calculation? All the calculators seem to use the ethanol content.

Is it not safe to assume that the goal is 96.5-ish octane? Not necessarily to have 30% ethanol in my tank?


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76FoMoCo

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I think it more about the ethanol content unless you have a tuner working on a higher octane tune. From what I have learned its a balance of how much boost you can push and still keep the fuel pressure in the safe place as the ethanol requires more fuel to do the same work and this put more strain on the fuel system. If you run the calculater on one or the other there is not much of a difference.
I have E85 and each time I test it it is 85% and I offset this with non E 91 so I go 5.5 G E85 to 10 pump 91. so for me I know just a fudge more than 2 to 1 is the happy place.
 

krewat

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One more thing to interject - isn't Ethanol just one set octane? It's not like gasoline where "octane" refers to the 8-carbon-atom hydrocarbon molecule or a blend of other things to make it function at a certain octane level.

Alcohol is alcohol... Ethanol is 113 octane. Period.
 

SM105K

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I think it more about the ethanol content unless you have a tuner working on a higher octane tune. From what I have learned its a balance of how much boost you can push and still keep the fuel pressure in the safe place as the ethanol requires more fuel to do the same work and this put more strain on the fuel system. If you run the calculater on one or the other there is not much of a difference.
I have E85 and each time I test it it is 85% and I offset this with non E 91 so I go 5.5 G E85 to 10 pump 91. so for me I know just a fudge more than 2 to 1 is the happy place.

Exactly, with E51 I am almost a 1:1 ratio. However, I will still test. But I generally know. For my car there really isn't a different between E28 and E35. So I stay in the window. Anything over E37ish for me (which I can calculator to the exact percentage) is where my set up starts to see fuel pressure dips I am not comfortable with. Hopefully with a upgraded HPFP I can run E51 as my primary fuel. No mixing, just test and fill.
 

SM105K

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One more thing to interject - isn't Ethanol just one set octane? It's not like gasoline where "octane" refers to the 8-carbon-atom hydrocarbon molecule or a blend of other things to make it function at a certain octane level.

Alcohol is alcohol... Ethanol is 113 octane. Period.

You are correct. However, if you can only get flex fuel like me then you would want to know the exact octane if you are mixing. I have a minimum of 100 octane with the E51 here, which is perfect for my setup.
 

4sfed

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One more thing to interject - isn't Ethanol just one set octane? It's not like gasoline where "octane" refers to the 8-carbon-atom hydrocarbon molecule or a blend of other things to make it function at a certain octane level.

Alcohol is alcohol... Ethanol is 113 octane. Period.

According to some sites, E85 can vary from 100 to 105 octane.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/ethanol-mix-calc.php


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b4black

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You can't accurately measure the octane of ethanol. The octane engine used for measuring don't account for the charge cooling effect. This really doesn't matter, since as mention above, ethanol is ethanol.

Shoot for a specific level of ethanol. Tuners call their tunes "E30", not "100 octane".

If you run E30 fuel on a stock tune, the oxygen sensor will "see" the oxygen in the ethanol as missing fuel. The ECM will add more fuel to make up for it. E30 has 6% less energy than E10. If you monitor the long term fuel trims (LTFT), you will see they will increase the fuel volume by 6%. If the LTFT go too far out of whack (~25%), the Check Engine will come on.

An E30 will adjust the Air Fuel Ratio to bring the LTFT back to zero. It will then take advantage of the higher octane by running more timing and/or more boost.

The best thing anyone can do is monitor their knock retard. Keep it at zero and keep the octane adjust ratio at 1. This allows maximum timing and maximum boost. If you consistently see knock, ask your tuner to dial back you tune a little.



Ethanol is cheaper than gasoline. The only reason to lower ethanol content is for cold starts in the winter. This means nearly every station will be at maximum ethanol during the summer.


And one last bit of trivia. It was originally called Ed85 for 85% denatured ethanol. At best, it's 83% pure ethanol. It's never been 85%.

Oh, and those little handheld test tube testers, they are very inaccurate. But don't worry, if you are monitoring knock, you don't need to be spot one with the E30. 25-35% is close enough.
 

4sfed

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are you needing a better octane?

Not necessarily. I'm just trying to underdtand the relationship between ethanol and octane. Higher ethanol doesn't necessarily mean higher octane. All the E30 calculators (the ones I've seen), use ethanol content, and assume the octane level. My issue is that I'm not sure the octane level can so easily assumed.

Or...am I just overthinking this....


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4sfed

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You can't accurately measure the octane of ethanol. The octane engine used for measuring don't account for the charge cooling effect. This really doesn't matter, since as mention above, ethanol is ethanol.

Shoot for a specific level of ethanol. Tuners call their tunes "E30", not "100 octane".

If you run E30 fuel on a stock tune, the oxygen sensor will "see" the oxygen in the ethanol as missing fuel. The ECM will add more fuel to make up for it. E30 has 6% less energy than E10. If you monitor the long term fuel trims (LTFT), you will see they will increase the fuel volume by 6%. If the LTFT go too far out of whack (~25%), the Check Engine will come on.

An E30 will adjust the Air Fuel Ratio to bring the LTFT back to zero. It will then take advantage of the higher octane by running more timing and/or more boost.

The best thing anyone can do is monitor their knock retard. Keep it at zero and keep the octane adjust ratio at 1. This allows maximum timing and maximum boost. If you consistently see knock, ask your tuner to dial back you tune a little.



Ethanol is cheaper than gasoline. The only reason to lower ethanol content is for cold starts in the winter. This means nearly every station will be at maximum ethanol during the summer.


And one last bit of trivia. It was originally called Ed85 for 85% denatured ethanol. At best, it's 83% pure ethanol. It's never been 85%.

Oh, and those little handheld test tube testers, they are very inaccurate. But don't worry, if you are monitoring knock, you don't need to be spot one with the E30. 25-35% is close enough.

Ah! Ok! Perfect! Thanks!


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