White smoke from exhaust

[Adam West]

I ended up taking my 2010 SHO (approx. 130k mileage) to the dealer for occasional white smoke from the exhaust. They found that the pcv valve and oil separator need replaced. The dealer showed me the oil separator and they said it looked like there was water (they were thinking from condensation) in the oil separator and the pcv valve was gunked up not allowing the oil through and that was causing the smoking. I'm not an expert in motors and I'm a new to SHO - The dealer tells me that there is a chance the motor was damaged beyond repair because if this issue. They are suggesting I replace the pcv valve and oil separator and see if the smoke from the exhaust keeps happening. I'm told if there is still smoke after the repair then I'm looking at $8500 for a new motor. Does this sound right?

 

[Pintony]

White smoke should be steam.
There MAY be some in the engine but that will not ruin the motor.
I ran water injection in my 1972 Turbo Pinto and never had any problems.
I would dump 1-2 gallons per night of racing.
How is your power?
Most likely condensation in exhaust burning off.
Is the oil milky looking?
Don't worry... Not yet!!!

 

[Adam West]

No power loss, no indication of an issue except for the white smoke and an occasional noise with the smoke that sounded like vacuum noise to me but a running/rattle to my wife.

 

[SilverSH0]

I think what the dealer is indicating is that if your PCV was plugged there's a chance your crankcase of your engine was under pressure and that's bad for your seals. Normally the PCV vents that pressure but if it's plugged, that pressure is going to find some way to escape.

 

[Pintony]

I think what the dealer is indicating is that if your PCV was plugged there's a chance your crankcase of your engine was under pressure and that's bad for your seals. Normally the PCV vents that pressure but if it's plugged, that pressure is going to find some way to escape.

Sounds good to me!
Any oil leaks Adam?

 

[SHOdded]

Have you owned your SHO since new, Adam? What oil/filter has been used to service it? Stock TStat? How does the coolant look, do the fans come on often? Does the intercooler have any "crud" pooling? Tends to be hotter on the firewall side of the engine, so it is also possible that the turbo, oil lines, and hoses need to be inspected closely. Remember that the turbos are oil AND water cooled.

Using high quality oil & filter is essential to just about every part of these engines: PCV, turbo, timing, ... While the Motorcraft oil is not the greatest product, with regular change intervals (6/5K, no more) and use of the Motorcraft filter, you can keep the engine running strong & clean. Certainly you can hunt down lower volatility oils and further improve engine life & performance.

Initial coolant change/flush is at about 6/100K, subsequent at 3/45K intervals. Coolant keeps temperatures down, but also protects the engine from corrosion via additives. Additives break down over time, just like with any of the other fluids in the vehicle.

There IS a TSB for valve cover replacement, but unless you have an appropriate warranty, cost will be OOP. Hopefully the PCV valve/separator changeout will do the trick

 

[postwick]

White smoke should be steam.
There MAY be some in the engine but that will not ruin the motor.
I ran water injection in my 1972 Turbo Pinto and never had any problems.
I would dump 1-2 gallons per night of racing.
How is your power?
Most likely condensation in exhaust burning off.
Is the oil milky looking?
Don't worry... Not yet!!!

White smoke is typically coolant being burned. Steam is actually invisible. Water vapor can be seen but the difference between that and actual smoke from burning coolant is usually pretty obvious.

 

[Pintony]

White smoke is typically coolant being burned. Steam is actually invisible. Water vapor can be seen but the difference between that and actual smoke from burning coolant is usually pretty obvious.

Curious... If you watch other cars on the right day right temps right humidity level they blow out white smoke.
My theory is that TURBOS are very HOT and the cooling of the turbo and the exhaust pull in lots of moisture as they cool. more so than say a non turbo car.
so.... IS it smoke or water vapor that Adam is seeing?
Adam, Does the smoke you see disappear quickly or waft through the air until out of sight?

 

[sperold]

If you were under warranty, I doubt your dealership would have the same advice to you.
Most likely the "smoke" will go away when you tidy up your pvc system.
White smoke is usually water or water/anti-freeze, but you can usually smell a sweet odor from antifreeze.
It takes very little water in the combustion chamber to put out enough "smoke" to have your car disappear in a cloud.

 

[Pintony]

If you were under warranty, I doubt your dealership would have the same advice to you.
Most likely the "smoke" will go away when you tidy up your pvc system.
White smoke is usually water or water/anti-freeze, but you can usually smell a sweet odor from antifreeze.
It takes very little water in the combustion chamber to put out enough "smoke" to have your car disappear in a cloud.

Oh but that is invisible!

 

[postwick]

Steam is invisible. Water vapor is not. They are not the same thing.

 

[Adam West]

Thanks for all of the responses. I bought the SHO about a year ago and it had a little over 100k on it when I bought it. It would only "smoke" when I could hear the noise in the engine. It would be a fairly large amount of smoke but it wouldn't linger - it would dissipate pretty quickly. The PCV valve and oil separator are being replaced today so I will update this post once I hear from the dealer. If there is no more smoke I'm told that the engine isn't ruined. My water pump is also leaking which is another $1800 plus if I let the dealer replace it.

I was just skeptical about needing a new engine at an $8500 price tag when the car still drove fine.

 

[Pintony]

Thanks for all of the responses. I bought the SHO about a year ago and it had a little over 100k on it when I bought it. It would only "smoke" when I could hear the noise in the engine. It would be a fairly large amount of smoke but it wouldn't linger - it would dissipate pretty quickly. The PCV valve and oil separator are being replaced today so I will update this post once I hear from the dealer. If there is no more smoke I'm told that the engine isn't ruined. My water pump is also leaking which is another $1800 plus if I let the dealer replace it.

I was just skeptical about needing a new engine at an $8500 price tag when the car still drove fine.

Hello Adam,
Who says your water pump is leaking?
Maybe the noise you hear is a bad bearing in the pump???
You need to find a good repair shop.. Start asking around....

 

[SHOdded]

If you can find a standalone Lincoln service shop that has "older" techs, you might get better answers, Adam. A) generally better service on the Lincoln side of things, and B) more experience with EB engines.

If the water pump has actually gone bad, it would be a good time to change out the timing set and belts as well.

 

[Adam West]

The dealer had the car on the lift last week and showed me the water pump. It looked like it has been leaking coolant and I have been loosing about 1/4 of the reservoir approx. every 2 weeks or so for about a month. The dealer tells me it takes 13 hours to pull everything apart and replace the water pump which makes it an expensive repair.

I definitely plan on getting other estimates on the water pump once this pcv and oil separator is repaired.

 

[BamSHO]

Its going to be pricey since you have to remove timing cover. Lots of crap to remove cause the water pumps in behind it. $1000 is about right, since it is mostly labor.

 

[SilverSH0]

Its going to be pricey since you have to remove timing cover. Lots of crap to remove cause the water pumps in behind it. $1000 is about right, since it is mostly labor.

I looked on the workshop manual before you posted this and found the same thing. Holy crap that thing is buried and would be a major PITA to change (especially if you only had jack stands and no lift). The water pump isn't too expensive but I never want to have to change it on mine.

 

[BamSHO]

Yep, major PITA!!!!

 

[Adam West]

Here is the latest. The dealer replaced the PCV valve and oil separator and the car is still smoking. They said they took the cover off the left turbo and oil started dripping out. They are thinking the turbo needs replaced which is another 13hr job I'm told with a $3k price tag. They want me to drive it until Monday just in case the oil in the turbo is residual from the PCV valve/oil separator issue and it "might" stop smoking once that oil burns off.

I drove it about 15-20 miles home from the dealer and it smoked the majority of the time. I will try and upload a video of the smoke soon.

They have backed off the "engine could be ruined" and now it's the leaking water pump and probably bad turbo. If I have to have it all replaced I'm out around $5k.

 

[SHOdded]

Hope you don't have to take that hit! At this time, due to the fact that you only see white smoke, you can expect to have the water pump replaced Do the water pump, timing set and belts while in there, and see if you can find a reputable non-dealer shop for the work. Blue smoke could've meant bad turbo seals. Emptying out the intercooler should help "dry out" the turbo faster also.