Another rear cam seal thread

[FastAndFurious]

I have searched already, but I could not find the right answer.

First off, my car is 89 with 3.2 and stage 1 cam.

Brad and I changed the rear cam seal twice in two weeks, but it still leaks!
We are not sure why it would still leak.

First time, we got the seal out and cleaned the surface really well, and then we put some rtv on outer surface, and put it back in. We made sure that it is leveled and pushed all the way back. After I drove the car about 100 miles that night, I touched the bottom of the cam sensor, and there is oil.

I talked to Brad on the phone, and he said maybe not putting assembly **** inside caused the leak.

So here we go again, we changed the cam seal again with rtv outside and oil inside. It was okay for about 100 miles, but then I touched the bottom of the cam sensor, and there it is! Oil is leaking again...

We used cam seals(has rubber all around and says NOK and some numbers) for both times, and we made sure that the lip is not rolled up.

What could be causing the leak? Maybe my car does not like the seal?

 

[trainguy1989]

What brand of seal are you using? If its Fel-pro they are not the right size and will leak. I used Ford OEM seals and have not had any problems since.

 

[FastAndFurious]

What brand of seal are you using? If its Fel-pro they are not the right size and will leak. I used Ford OEM seals and have not had any problems since.

I don't know exactly what kind of brand the seals are. Brad had tons of them, and they all say NOK and some numbers on them.

 

[JRA2000TL]

Only use National or Ford seals.

 

[operdot]

Next time you have the seal out, check for scoring marks on the cam itself.

 

[Bob Gervais]

Next time you have the seal out, check for scoring marks on the cam itself.

This.

Also, upon installation, it's really helpful to have that plastic seal expander that fits on the end of the cam, especially at the cam sensor.

 

[rubydist]

I have never gotten one installed properly on the rear cam w/o that seal expander tool. It is a real bugger, because it starts into the housing at the same time it starts on the cam, so its almost impossible to do w/o messing up the seal.

 

[itwonder]

You have to be very careful to keep the seal straight as it goes on. If it cants to one side, it can be damaged enough to leak. It is remotely possible that it is not the seal, but rather a leak in the cap that forms the top half of the cavity. It is sealed with RTV. The OEM seals do have a NOK marking. However, those may be old? Perhaps it is time to try another seal. I suggest trying the National or Ford E9DZ-6700-A. Finally, there may be a burr or sharp place on the end of the cam that is nicking the seal as it rides over it. I think the Rotunda seal expander takes care of that. A tightly stretched single layer of electrical tape will also work - not easy to get it in place in that location but may be worth a shot.

 

[jimtash]

Use grease to **** up the seal lip and not oil before installation. Smear it on the cam and carefully on the seal as well. The oil gets wiped away and leaves hardly any lubrication while the grease will still be there. You want to ensure that the lip isn't burned because of insufficient lubrication during that initial start-up and oil alone won't do it.

I have Fel-Pro seals installed and they do not leak.

 

[zoomlater]

After the first time you fixed the seal, was there oil inside the cam sensor? If there wasn't oil inside, then maybe as "itwonder" mentioned, it was coming from the cap.

If you and Brad want to try this again, PM me as I have the Rotunda tool to put the seal on. I even have an extra National seal if you want to try that one instead. Mine leaked the first time I tried it since I didn't use any RTV. I used a Ford one the second time with RTV and it hasn't leaked for over a year now. Shosource has Ford cam seals.

 

[qiksho]

Use grease to **** up the seal lip and not oil before installation. Smear it on the cam and carefully on the seal as well. The oil gets wiped away and leaves hardly any lubrication while the grease will still be there. You want to ensure that the lip isn't burned because of insufficient lubrication during that initial start-up and oil alone won't do it.

I have Fel-Pro seals installed and they do not leak.

I have replaced this seal multiple times on different SHO's only using grease and never had a leak.

I think others have provided great advice. Check and make sure there isn't a bur or nic out of the cam. I had a 1st gen probe gt that had a nick out of the cam and it leaked a quart every 200 miles.

 

[FastAndFurious]

Next time you have the seal out, check for scoring marks on the cam itself.

Will do!

You have to be very careful to keep the seal straight as it goes on. If it cants to one side, it can be damaged enough to leak. It is remotely possible that it is not the seal, but rather a leak in the cap that forms the top half of the cavity. It is sealed with RTV. The OEM seals do have a NOK marking. However, those may be old? Perhaps it is time to try another seal. I suggest trying the National or Ford E9DZ-6700-A. Finally, there may be a burr or sharp place on the end of the cam that is nicking the seal as it rides over it. I think the Rotunda seal expander takes care of that. A tightly stretched single layer of electrical tape will also work - not easy to get it in place in that location but may be worth a shot.

There is oil inside of the cam sensor, so the oil is leaking most likely from the seal.

After the first time you fixed the seal, was there oil inside the cam sensor? If there wasn't oil inside, then maybe as "itwonder" mentioned, it was coming from the cap.

If you and Brad want to try this again, PM me as I have the Rotunda tool to put the seal on. I even have an extra National seal if you want to try that one instead. Mine leaked the first time I tried it since I didn't use any RTV. I used a Ford one the second time with RTV and it hasn't leaked for over a year now. Shosource has Ford cam seals.

You will get a PM soon! Thanks for the offer!

I have replaced this seal multiple times on different SHO's only using grease and never had a leak.

I think others have provided great advice. Check and make sure there isn't a bur or nic out of the cam. I had a 1st gen probe gt that had a nick out of the cam and it leaked a quart every 200 miles.

Will do! Thanks!

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Another tip is to give the seal a slight twist as you're going over the end of the camshaft, especially if installing without the expander, but even if you are.

Also, might sound dumb but I've seen it done: make sure you remove the CMP/CID shutter before trying to install the seal.

 

[FastAndFurious]

Another tip is to give the seal a slight twist as you're going over the end of the camshaft, especially if installing without the expander, but even if you are.

Also, might sound dumb but I've seen it done: make sure you remove the CMP/CID shutter before trying to install the seal.

Thanks! I will definitely give it a little twist.

We did remove the shutter.

 

[FastAndFurious]

I'm still having a trouble with the rear cam seal.

Tim(zoomlater) and I changed the cam seal about 2-3 weeks ago with an expander tool. First I thought there wasn't any leak after the new seal, but it slowly started leaking again, and now it leaks pretty good amount again. Ugh!

I just followed Tim's advice and put a round piece of paper on the cam seal, and I ran the car for a couple of minutes. Here is the result.


Click on the image to make it bigger.

What do you guys think? I think when I started the car, the paper spun for a little bit or maybe it kept spinning with the cam. Hopefully it's not the cam...

 

[zoomlater]

Is that a flat strip of paper? I was thinking a flat strip that sit flush up against the cam seal and lies flush against the inside circumference so it doesn't make any contact with the vane when it's spinning. You might be able to see where the leak first starts.

 

[FastAndFurious]

Ah I see. I will try to do that again. I thought there is no space between the cam seal, and the housing though.

And what if the oil is leaking between the cam seal and the cam? Ugh.. Hopefully that's not the case..

 

[zoomlater]

I'm pretty sure there is a small gap and hopefully the paper won't throw off the sensor.

If it's leaking between the cam and cam seal, then that's where the redisleeve is used. I haven't used one, but I'm sure someone else can chime in. Either that or it's time for those Triflows

 

[rubydist]

where the paper is wet suggests the seal is leaking around the outside - where it fits into the housing - did you put some rtv on the seal before installing it?

 

[VortecGT]

When installing I found it helps ALOT to loosen the cam cap to get the seal in as well.