Weird Brake Problem

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Ocnaj

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The problem is on a '90. When I brake fast the pedal tends to be on the normal side having good pressure. But when I brake slowly the pedal goes all the way to the floor.

I did a couple of tests for the booster I found on one of the threads on here and it seems that it is fine.

Would this be the MC? The fluid level doesn't get low at any point and its a rust free car if that helps. Thanks everyone in advance.
 

itwonder

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Try these generic tests for booster and MC:

Test Power Brake Booster

If the pedal feels "hard" while the engine is running, the booster isn't operating correctly.

Test 1

1. With the engine off, pump the brake pedal to remove any residual vacuum in the booster.
2. Hold pressure on the pedal while you start the engine. When the engine starts, the pedal should drop about a 1/4", this indicates that the booster is working properly.

Test 2

1. Run the engine a couple of minutes.
2. Turn the engine off and press the pedal several times slowly. The first pump should be fairly low. The second and third should become slightly firmer. This indicates an airtight booster.

Test 3

1. Start the engine and press the brake pedal, then stop the engine with the pedal still pressed. If the pedal does not drop after holding the pressure on the pedal for 30 seconds, the booster is airtight.

Inspect the Check Valve

1. Disconnect the vacuum hose where it connects to the intake manifold. Do not disconnect the vacuum line from the booster. Air should not flow when pressure is applied, but should flow when suction is applied. If air flows in both directions or there is no air flow, the valve needs to be replaced.

Test Master Cylinder

Note that this test of the master cylinder requires a complete re-bleeding of the system since the brake lines are removed from the master to perform this test. This is why we include this test during the bench bleeding process. However, just because you have performed the test during bench bleeding does not mean that that air has not entered the master cylinder since then. Should air enter the master cylinder at any time after bench bleeding, the master cylinder MUST be removed from the vehicle and bench bled again. A number of things can cause air to enter the master cylinder:

* If the fluid levels drop too low during the bleeding process.
* If the master cylinder was left sitting for too long after the bench bleeding before having the lines installed.
* Mishandling of the master cylinder such as if it were dropped or jarred excessively.

1. Remove the brake lines from the master cylinder ports.
2. Block off the master cylinder brake line ports using the correct size inverted flare plugs or bolts with the appropriate thread size for the ports on your master cylinder. Dual port master cylinders that have ports on both sides need to have all four ports plugged. The protruding cone of the inverted flare seat in the master cylinder port is made of a soft material that can easily be deformed if over tightened. If using bolts, be sure to just snug the bolts so as not to damage the cone seal surface. This cone mates with the inverted flare (expanded mouth opening) of the brake lines. If you have the ability, you can also drill a point into the end of the bolt to help prevent this from occurring.
3. Apply constant pressure to the pedal, the pedal should be firm, hard and should not drop over time.
4. If the pedal is squishy there may be air in the master cylinder. Bench bleed the master according to the instructions above and test again.
5. If the pedal is firm and then drops over time under constant pressure, the master cylinder should be replaced.
 

shoclown

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it sounds like you have a bad master cylinder seal..
When the brakes are applied slowly the fluid is trying to be compressed and if there is a bad seal it has alot more time to bleed past the piston. where if you push it hard and fast the fluid is not held there long enough to result in a sinking feeling.

Normally the fluid is supposed to be changed every 1-2 years due to its hydroscopic nature( absorbs h20 from the air) if not changed the fluid begins to allowing corrosion/rust to build up on different brake parts enternall passages. Then as the linnings start to wear the seals are being drug across this corrosion which is either to rough for the seals to seal against orit beats up on the seal causing small little bypass leaks. it is pretty common for this to happen on older cars.
you might be able to disassemble and hone then rbuild it other than replace it.
max amount you can hone from master cylinder bore is .003. good luck
 

Ocnaj

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How hard is it to rebuild the MC? Do you think I'm better off just buying a rebuilt one from napa or advance? Napa has one for 92 bucks. Advance has about 20 different kinds ranging from 50 to 250. Thanks for the help.
 

itwonder

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How hard is it to rebuild the MC? Do you think I'm better off just buying a rebuilt one from napa or advance? Napa has one for 92 bucks. Advance has about 20 different kinds ranging from 50 to 250. Thanks for the help.

Well, it depends. The rebuild kit is $20 + and the rebuilt MC is $45 +. To rebuild one you need to buy or borrow a MC hone. They are straightforward to rebuild as long as any pits in the bore are shallow enough to bore out. If not, the core is no good.

I use to rebuild them, but I guess I have gotten lazy and now I just buy a rebuilt one; whatever has a lifetime warranty. Just make sure you get the one for ABS brakes.
As far as sources go, Rockauto is usually cheaper than Autozone, Advance, or NAPA and there is a 5% discount code on the forum. But the downside is if you ever have a warranty exchange or want to return the core for credit, you pay for shipping instead of walking into a local store.
 
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Ocnaj

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Ok. I don't have the tool so I'm just going to buy a rebuilt one. What would be the correct one to buy from Rock Auto? There is only one on the list that I see that says SHO on the description and the part number is #MC39771 and it is 94 bucks. Would this be the correct one to buy? Or is there others ones for the SHO?
 
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itwonder

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In Rockauto catalog, the PN appears in blue. If you click it, a pop-up will show what vehicles it is used on. The SHO is listed for these:


A-1 CARDONE Part # 102533 More Info {Master Cylinder Remanufactured.}
w/ABS $30.79

RAYBESTOS Part # MC390024 $57.79
 

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