So, now I get to boast a mod ...

[SHO&'Vette]

I finished the brakes yesterday afternoon ... and I was only 30 minutes late for the 6:30 dinner party at my cousin's home - slid right in the front door with a brief and mumbled apology for being late (my husband and daughters were ahead of me 15 minutes or so mercifully, they hadn't announced that I was still at home, washing my hands with sandpaper), and when I shook hands to say hello, I didn't offer any excuse for my still oh-so-very greasy fingernails. What the heck, it's better than the last time I took a wrench to that SHO. Those O2 sensors made me several hours late for that dinner party and I could hardly slide in without an explanation for the stitches in my brow and the blood on my shirt - and the grease in my fingernails that day told everything else!

But today, I am fearless and stitchless ... and that sparkling clean, opal frost '94 SHO of mine stops on a dime.

I had to go get the oil topped off yesterday - oil light came on while I was test driving - and the Mobile **** joint around the corner where I have the oil changed gives you a free top off ... (I know, I know but it's a lot of trouble to dispose of used motor oil appropriately around here and with a coupon, it's $29 bucks with filter and free fluid top off so, come on, tell the truth, you would too!) ... and since the gentleman was standing in the bay underneath of my car, I asked if he could eyeball the connections on those new SS hoses and let me know if he saw anything leaking or otherwise amiss ... well, it was quite gratifying to hear him say to other fellow down there, "Dude, look at this, man ... sweet!"

So, in closing, the worst part of that job was filing the little tabs off the brake hose brackets to get the lines in ... and my husband was kind enough to do that for me ... and the second worst part was that wondering if I was doing something wrong ... and you all were kind enough to be there and give me the benefit of you experience and sage advice. I owe you all, I appreciate your help and yes, your friendship ... that's what I call it anyway. I wish I had something to offer in return but I'm not sure what it is right now ... well, as soon as my credit cards stop smokin' from all these part purchases, I'll make another contribution to the Shoforum. And as soon as I can figure out how to hook up the digital camera to my computer, I'll put up a picture of my spit-shine clean SHO (my spit shine, not the kids ... funny thing, though, as soon as I drove up the driveway yesterday, they started fighting about who would get to drive tomorrow ... Maybe I will! Ha!

<small>[ December 01, 2003, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: SHO&'Vette ]</small>

 

[K-Dawg]

Glad you got through it alright. Now you have something to add to your signature. thumb

 

[luigisho]

A job well done. FYI for the brake hose brackets, a dremel with a metal grinding bit makes quick work of that. A woman getting down and dirty with her car. Sweet. thumb

 

[rangerj]

SHO&Vette,

You did a 96 brake upgrade, with new disks, pads, calipers, and stainless steel hoses all around? Jolly Good SHO (sic)! thumb

I'll bet you were grinning like the Cheshire Cat at that dinner party. What's next? Borla cats-back exhaust? shrug rangerj

 

[SHO&'Vette]

Well, now that you mention it, I'm told that the exhaust is in need of a little repairing ... appears there's some rust and a separation between one of the pipes and mufflers. If it's anything like the exhaust on my 'vette, it's likely to expensive and that's the greatest motivator I know for doin' it yourself. That and the fun of it all!

The next thing the girls want for that car is a CD player (it's was the only option available that wasn't on that car when I got it) but I'll just tell them that thanks to ranjerj, we're looking at something in the stainless steel department, with a bit of extra horsepower and a lovely, throaty growl! I expect that will go over like a lead balloon.

Meanwhile, I also have a leaky oil pan gasket, rear engine seal and a dented transmission pan and potentially leaky gasket - but of course, no one ran over anything so I must have hit it with my head to make that big indentation. I think those sound like really dirty jobs that I might leave to the mechanic ... unless .... squint

 

[rangerj]

SHO&VETTE,

You know what "they" say, "no grease no glory"!

Whether you have the oil leak done by a pro, or fix it yourself, it needs to be attended to ASAP.
You do not want to trash the engine or the trans due to a lack of lubricant.

As for "who done it", my kids always pled the 5th too! If you need another trans pan you might inquire on the forum and see if anyone has a spare from a parts car.

If I remember correctly you were quoted $1500 to have your mechanic replace your brakes. That did not include the upgrade parts, nor the SS lines.

If you would not mind, what did the job cost, including brake pads, SS brake hoses, disks, calipers, fluid, and any bits and pieces including Shipping/Handling, special tools (if any), ect.? Did you save money, that is did it cost you less than the $1500 you would have spent anyway.

Again, "ya done good", you persavered (sp), you adapted, you overcame. The trials and tribulations you went through are common.

When you work on a 10 year old car you have to expect bolts that do not want to budge, bolt heads that round off, bolts that break, etc. Stuff happens. The important thing is you hung in there and got the job done. hail rangerj thumb

 

[SHOtimer]

SHO&Vette, I am getting ready to do some brake work myself, and have been lookin through Summit and Jegs at those Earls SS brake hoses that you installed. Might I ask what you used? The length of each SS hose, or more basically the part numbers that seem to have worked for you. Thanx, Doug

 

[K-Dawg]

They are part number 361-28B460 or something like that. They are listed for a 94-95 SHO. They come with the crush washers and the only thing you'd need is brake fluid.

 

[SHO&'Vette]

I don't mind a bit telling how much it cost me to do this job. Gosh, saving a huge amount of cash is a big part of the fun - although if I took into account the opportunity cost of my time at the hourly rate I am paid for doing what I actually do for a living, this might well be the most expensive brake job ever done on this planet - oh well, the price of fun cannot be too high, I say!) Seriously, though, I messed up my pricing by not scheduling things carefully so when I finally blocked out the time to do the job and had determined which parts I had to order because I couldn't get them locally - and made that last minute decision to get those SS lines that K-DAWG recommended - I had to pay extra for shipping just to be sure it all got here when I needed it on Friday after Thanksgiving. For anyone who is more organized, the total price of $779 would be at least $95.00 less.

I tried to insert my spreadsheet for this job below but I don't know how well an Excel spreadsheet format will translate into this format (whatever format 'this' is) - and yes, I admit to using spreadsheets all the time for this and every other kind of thing I do - call it another hobby. Anyway, I was delighted to have a better brake job for 'half' the price my mechanic was going to charge (and he's a good guy, BTW, I don't begrudge him a living wage! And I'll always pay him when I have to but this job seemed fun and eminently 'doable' - again, only with your help!) love from me to you, T wink


SHO Brake Job - 11-03

Rear brakes
calipers, rotors & pads (Advance Auto)
*price $269 less core rebate of $70 $199.00
subtotal rear $199.00

Front brakes
calipers (Advance Auto) $76.96
pads (Advance Auto) $33.28
rotors (shonutperformance.com $142.56
caliper brackets (") $91.89
knuckle to bracket bolts (") $31.72
s&h* priority shipping $71.00
subtotal front $447.41

SS Hoses
brake hoses (4) $86.99
s&h/priority shipping $28.98
subtotal hoses $115.97

Miscellaneous
liquid wrench $2.99
brake part cleaner (2 cans @ 1.99) $3.98
brake fluid (2 cans @ 4.98) $9.96
subtotal $16.93

TOTAL $779.31

 

[SHO&'Vette]

Oh, I forgot something ... I already knew I needed new calipers all the way around and, as I understand it, the '96 upgrade does not require you to get new calipers. So, if the front calipers aren't bad, they can be used with the new brackets and bigger rotors and that would shave another $75 or so off the job.

Also, I forgot to include on my spreadsheet the two sets of new front caliper pins I bought for about $11.95 each. I bought them because I needed at least one of the caliper pin bolts to replace the one I rounded off (ouch!) and the bolts only came with the pins at Advance Auto. The brackets from shonutperformance.com came with the pins in them, all lubed and ready, but no bolts. As it turned out, it was a good thing I got the whole business together because on Friday night, I over-torqued one of the pin bolts and stripped the pin so I had to replace it anyway (and I learned a lesson: just because they're hard to get off doesn't mean they're hard to get on! Live and learn, or better yet, live and laugh - as often and as heartily as is possible - without disrupting the others, of course!) T

<small>[ December 02, 2003, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: SHO&'Vette ]</small>

 

[rangerj]

SHO&VETTE,

It is very common for folks to break bolts, round off bolt heads, or strip threads when working on brakes. The reason, logically, is the fear that if it is not tight enough it may cause a failure.

This can easily be avoided by using a torque wrench. X-mas is coming, hint, hint!

I get the impression that you are satisfied with the braking performance. Does the upgrade give you a noticable improvement in stopping power?

Thanks for the info on the parts and parts costs.

C.D. Player? Is that like an 8 Track tape player?
shrug wink rangerj

 

[SHOtimer]

Thanx, K-dawg I was only looking at the cataloges and they just listed certain lengths. Went online to Jegs and found that. Thanx again. Doug

 

[SHO&'Vette]

It probably serves me right for crowing too soon and too loudly ... the left rear SS line leaks and I had to send my daughter on a rather harrowing ride on the Beltway (that's meaningless to most of you but for those of you who know it, you know what I'm talking about). Tried to fix it at the office before she left for class this evening and I thought I had but that's because I assumed it was the connection I had made between the hose and the brake like that was at fault even though I noted that the fluid appeared to be coming out the back of the bracket, toward the rear of the car. Got the car home, took off the wheel, reseated the line into the hose, pressed the pedal and, lo and behold, it is the connection on the hose. The fluid is leaking back out from under the flanged nut that is crimped - I guess - to the hose itself.

Obviously, it is possible I did the damage installing the hose but it is also possible that the connection was defective when I got it. Called Jeg's - they only sell the kit, not individual hoses (and it's not like I'm prepared to take off the other three at this point) but someone reluctantly agreed to call Earl's (a division of Holley's) tomorrow to see if they would ship the left rear hose to me directly. Time is a big factor for me - well, that was probably a stupid thing to say because time is a factor for everyone when their car is up on jack stands in the driveway - but really, at this point, I'd practically pay another $115 (including priority shipping) to get a whole new kit from Jeg's by Friday - anyone out there who wants the other three hoses cheap!!? rant

 

[SHO&'Vette]

I just got off the phone with a customer service rep from Jeg's and from Holley and they were very helpful. A replacement hose is being shipped overnight so I'll have it tomorrow. I send back the leaky one so they can analyze it and see where and why it failed. The gentleman from Holley's said he'd share that info with me. ... They did the right thing with no fuss and no hassle ... Go Jeg's! Go Holley ... performance plus in all categories.

 

[rangerj]

SHO&VETTE,

Look at the bright side, nobody got hurt.

Look at your master cylinder resevoir. Was it ever EMPTY. You may have to "bench bleed" the master cylinder to get the air out of it if it had become "dry" due to the leak. If the leak is very minor, and the brakes were not applied often enough to pump the reservoir dry, this may not have happened. Cross your fingers.

If this is not a factor, then all you have to do is replace the line and bleed the offending quadrant. If it seems as though you just can't get rid of that spongy pedal, then suspect trapped air in the master cylinder, or the ABS pump.

We'll cross that bridge if we come to it!

Oh yeh, you still have bragging rights. This type of stuff happens to all of us at one time or another. It ain't no big thing bud.
rangerj

 

[SHO&'Vette]

I just put the replacement hose on and bled the brakes all the way around ... and yes, you guessed it, still spongy. The car stops beautifully but I can't imagine that the pedal should feel that sloppy after all this time and money.

Is bleeding the master cylinder hard to do? It's now snowing outside now, as if last weekend wasn't miserable enough with the rain.

 

[rangerj]

SHO&VETTE,

Let me go back to my earlier question in re the Master cylinder. Was the master cylinder pumped dry? I think that is a rhetorical question at this point.

OK, take a deep breath, exhale slowly, and remind yourself that your daughter was not injured and that you saved a lot of money doing it your self.

Now, I'll answer your question about the difficulty of bleeding the master cylinder. The good news is the master cylinder does not have to be removed in order to bleed it.

OK now for an orientation of the master cylinder. On the driver's side (left side)
of the master cylinder there are two brake lines, one toward the front, and one toward the back. (Remember left and right are determined as if you were sitting in the drivers seat looking out the window)

Gather up the right size wrench(s) to loosen the nuts that hold these lines to the master cylinder, your brake fluid, and an assistant. (Something to catch the brake fluid that escapes when you do the bleeding should also be used. Anything you can fit in the cramped space)

WARNING: BRAKE FLUID CAN MAR YOUR PAINT FINISH. Clean any brake fluid off of the paint surface with soapy water or rubbing alchohol. What ever gets spilled on the inner fender well can be rinsed with soapy water when you are done with the bleeding process.

I cover the outer surface of the fender with aluminum foil taped to the fender. That way any splashed brake fluid does not get on the paint.

Loosen the line fitting about 3/4 of a turn while your assistant applies pressure to the brake pedal and pushes the pedal SLOWLY to the floor, that is "full travel". Air and some fluid will escape (That is the IDEA). Once you have tightened the nut (you don't want to suck air in), your assistant can ease the pedal up to the full released position.

Waite 5 to 10 seconds, which lets air bubles rise to the high point, and repeat the process. You are bleeding the air out of the master cylinder. Neat huh? Ain't it amazing? Please tell me you are smiling.

Now do the rear line on the driver's side (same side you just did but the rear line on the master cylinder). You do the front line first because it is elevated and most of the air is most likely UP front (no pun intended).

Do the rear one a couple of times using the same proceedure. Remember, have the assistant apply slow even pressure and push the pedal all the way to the floor. Then once you have closed the line (so no air gets "sucked" in), the assistant eases the pedal up to the full released position.

I would repeat the whole process once more each, that is front, then rear, until you get a hard pedal. You MAY have to bleed all of the lines to get your final HARD pedal.

If you did a good job of bleeding the lines the chances are the only air in the system was trapped in the master cylinder.

You sounded a little down in your post. You need not be. Keep your chin up, but don't get it in the way of a wrench!!! We'll be here. pcorn rangerj

 

[Yamaha V6]

With the Earl's lines, DO NOT use the bracket on the strut to bolt the line to. The tab on the brake lines is in the wrong spot, and you can kink the lines. I have them routed around the INSIDE of the strut & zip-tied up out of the way on my 95 ATX, IIRC.

I've had nothing but great luck & rock-hard pedal feel on the Earl's lines with the 96 upgrade. Check for a vac. leak at the vac distribution block above the brake reservoir, and chase those vac lines back to the intake manifold.

Also, make sure the ABS unit hasn't got a bubble in it.