Need help analyzing log file.

[Lupo]

Here is the tweecer logfile of a short run I did last month.

http://mame.myftp.org:8080/april26-08.zip

This is with S-trim, Accel #48 injectors, and lightning 80mm.

Any suggestions?

 

[Ishodu]

Have you tuned the maf at all? Stock table still in use?

 

[Ishodu]

It would be also quite helpful if you were logging the labse.

 

[Lupo]

Have you tuned the maf at all? Stock table still in use?

Yea, the MAF is tuned for the lightning 80mm. The stabilized fuel table is modified as well.

 

[yamahaSHO]

LAMBSE and KAMRF would be very helpful. From the quick look I took at it, you're running rich and the NBO2's aren't doing much of any switching.

There's no need to log both MAF volts and Kg/hr... In fact, I would ONLY log MAF voltage as Kg/hr can be extremely off when not tuned. Before I could really give much advice, I'd like to see the correction the computer is doing via the KAMRF values.

 

[Lupo]

LAMBSE and KAMRF would be very helpful. From the quick look I took at it, you're running rich and the NBO2's aren't doing much of any switching.

There's no need to log both MAF volts and Kg/hr... In fact, I would ONLY log MAF voltage as Kg/hr can be extremely off when not tuned. Before I could really give much advice, I'd like to see the correction the computer is doing via the KAMRF values.

Cool. I'll get the LAMBSE and KAMRF on the next log. I disable the adaptive learning at WOT for safety. Something Josh from Shonut turned me on to.

 

[yamahaSHO]

You know you can run adaptive learning but have it cut off at a set load, right? Or is that what you're talking about? If we're on the same page, we got the file from the same guy.

 

[Lupo]

You know you can run adaptive learning but have it cut off at a set load, right? Or is that what you're talking about? If we're on the same page, we got the file from the same guy.

Yep!

 

[AREA 91]

Cool. I'll get the LAMBSE and KAMRF on the next log. I disable the adaptive learning at WOT for safety. Something Josh from Shonut turned me on to.

You know you can run adaptive learning but have it cut off at a set load, right? Or is that what you're talking about? If we're on the same page, we got the file from the same guy.

Can you guy's tell me how to do this?

Thanks, Brian

 

[Lupo]

Can you guy's tell me how to do this?

Thanks, Brian

You have to use a tuning solution that has "Adaptive Table Update" defined.
AFAIK, only tweecer has this defined, but you have to get the lastest .DAT file from Josh at Shonut. He only gives this .dat file to customers. The X2J.dat that comes with Caledit does not have this table defined.

 

[Lupo]

Ok, here is the latest log file, with LAMBSE and KAMRF.
With this run, I am now using a draw-through setup with the Lightning 80mm MAF.

http://mame.myftp.org:8080/August25-09.zip

Car seems to run better with the new draw-through setup.

 

[sho_sc]

Ok, here is the latest log file, with LAMBSE and KAMRF.
With this run, I am now using a draw-through setup with the Lightning 80mm MAF.

http://mame.myftp.org:8080/August25-09.zip

Car seems to run better with the new draw-through setup.

First, I would pull at least 3 degrees of timing out of your WOT Spark Curve across the entire RPM range. While you are tuning, less timing is good. You are showing signs of detonation, not serious, but serious enough.

Second, refresh my memory on your injector settings. It looks like you are reporting too big of injector for both the high and low slopes.

Third, do you have the adaptive learning turned off for loads above 80%? You either are adding fuel via Fuel Multiplier or it is "learning to add".

Fourth, MAF curve needs to richer, but we need to get the other settings closer first.

Fifth, you don't want to hear this, but you are running out of injectors. When I charted the MAFv over the AFR, I notice that when the MAFv got above 4.7 your AFR went all of sudden "o.k." while being lean everywhere else. Checking your injector duty cycle, that's when you went above 87%. When injectors get close to 90% they will go static. Hence, a drop in AFR. More than likely, your injector settings are off and you probably closer to 90% than 87% at that point.

I bet without knowing you are seeing quite-a-bit of boost; high loads with a lean MAF is tell tale sign.

 

[Sho Amo]

wow

 

[shomethe$$$]

Car is a heavy breather..car must roll....log looks ok...kinda lean but not bad at all for a first run.

Whats your relative fuel pressure?
How's your part throttle?
What size is your inlet pipe the voltage seems high?
Go over your complete setup, engine, fuel system...etc.
How about posting the tune?

 

[Lupo]

First, I would pull at least 3 degrees of timing out of your WOT Spark Curve across the entire RPM range. While you are tuning, less timing is good. You are showing signs of detonation, not serious, but serious enough.

Second, refresh my memory on your injector settings. It looks like you are reporting too big of injector for both the high and low slopes.

Third, do you have the adaptive learning turned off for loads above 80%? You either are adding fuel via Fuel Multiplier or it is "learning to add".

Fourth, MAF curve needs to richer, but we need to get the other settings closer first.

Fifth, you don't want to hear this, but you are running out of injectors. When I charted the MAFv over the AFR, I notice that when the MAFv got above 4.7 your AFR went all of sudden "o.k." while being lean everywhere else. Checking your injector duty cycle, that's when you went above 87%. When injectors get close to 90% they will go static. Hence, a drop in AFR. More than likely, your injector settings are off and you probably closer to 90% than 87% at that point.

I bet without knowing you are seeing quite-a-bit of boost; high loads with a lean MAF is tell tale sign.

Thanks for the analysis Ransom!

First of all, I forgot to mention that I have my WB in the wrong place...AFTER the y-pipe. I need to move it before the cats. So with that in mind, the WB reading is not too accurate, but still semi useful...
So that might greatly effect the analysis.

I am using the accel #48 injectors. My slopes are 49/85. Stock fuel pressure of 39psi relative. I am using the SHONUT hi-po FPR setup with bigger feed lines. Do you think I need to raise the fuel pressure?

I do have adaptive learning turned off after 80% load (Thanks to Josh T.), but for safety's sake, I add a little fuel at the higher RPMs when I first test out a tune, using the WOT fuel multiplier.

Here is the current tune:
http://mame.myftp.org:8080/gsc821.bin


Current setup:
3.2 with 9:1 CR pistons
1mm oversize valves
EH intake runners, BBBs
Vortech S-trim, 3.10 pulley
80mm Lightning MAF, draw-through
Accel #48 injectors

 

[sho_sc]

Thanks for the analysis Ransom!

First of all, I forgot to mention that I have my WB in the wrong place...AFTER the y-pipe. I need to move it before the cats. So with that in mind, the WB reading is not too accurate, but still semi useful...
So that might greatly effect the analysis.

I am using the accel #48 injectors. My slopes are 49/85. Stock fuel pressure of 39psi relative. I am using the SHONUT hi-po FPR setup with bigger feed lines. Do you think I need to raise the fuel pressure?

I do have adaptive learning turned off after 80% load (Thanks to Josh T.), but for safety's sake, I add a little fuel at the higher RPMs when I first test out a tune, using the WOT fuel multiplier.

Here is the current tune:
http://mame.myftp.org:8080/gsc821.bin


Current setup:
3.2 with 9:1 CR pistons
1mm oversize valves
EH intake runners, BBBs
Vortech S-trim, 3.10 pulley
80mm Lightning MAF, draw-through
Accel #48 injectors

CATS do NOT alter WB02 readings other than averages them out. Read this :
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10648

If I get a chance today, I'll look at the tune ...

Yes, I would raise the fuel pressure to 44 psi and set the injector values to 49/62 .. and pull some timing out of the WOT curve.

Stock Cams?

 

[sho_sc]

A quick look and I am more concerned about your timing curve.

My rule of thumb, while tunning and running LC pistons, is ignore the first 2 lbs of boost, but after that subtract from the stock curve 1 degree of timing per lb of boost. Assuming you are running GOOD 93 octane fuel. e.g. at 6K RPM you see 9 lbs of boost then your timing should be 24.5 (stock 31.5 - 7) ... after tunning you can add a couple degrees back in, but not much with 93 octane.

My concern is your 3,500 - 5,500 range, I know you are seeing boost and your timing curve is more agressive than stock.

 

[Lupo]

CATS do NOT alter WB02 readings other than averages them out. Read this :
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10648

If I get a chance today, I'll look at the tune ...

Yes, I would raise the fuel pressure to 44 psi and set the injector values to 49/62 .. and pull some timing out of the WOT curve.

Stock Cams?

Yes, the cams are stock.
I'll start working on the timing. Better safe than sorry. The funny thing is that my current tune is way less aggressive on the advance than the original SHOShop tune.
I heard that Vadim used to make a very advance curve, and let the knock sensor remove all it could, because apparently he felt the knock sensor was picking up too much noise that wasn't knock on a S/C setup. Just what I heard..

One interesting thing you might not know about the SHOShop tunes:
The "base" X2J tune that they used (including Ted B.) had a couple wrong settings that they could not see in the LPM software.
The setting "Knock Sensor Retard Rate", which stock, is set to "-6", was set to "0" on the base X2J tunes they used for LPM.
Josh T first found this out, and I also confirmed it once I had all the SHOShop tuning stuff.
Now this setting is the amount of degrees per second the computer can remove based on the knock sensor (from what I understand).
Now the question is, what exactly does setting this scalar to "0" do?
Does it mean the computer can remove zero degrees per second, in effect killing the knock sensor function?
Or does it mean the computer can remove timing as fast as it wants?
I haven't had the time or inclination to find out.


Anyways, thank you for your input, I'm learning a lot!

 

[Lupo]

Car is a heavy breather..car must roll....log looks ok...kinda lean but not bad at all for a first run.

Whats your relative fuel pressure?
How's your part throttle?
What size is your inlet pipe the voltage seems high?
Go over your complete setup, engine, fuel system...etc.
How about posting the tune?

Inlet is 4" , my filter right onto the 4" adapter plate for the MAF.

 

[Sho Amo]

e.g. at 6K RPM you see 9 lbs of boost then your timing should be 24.5 (stock 31.5 - 7)

I dont know why but i was under the impression stock was 34*?

hmm i def. need some tweecer practice.