Insight Into Purchasing an 78k miles 2016 SHO PP

[Krumm]

My apologize if this is a repost and long winded, however I feel my situation is a little different. I'll try and keep it short but detailed. I found a 2016 PP SHO an hour or so away from me, went to check it out and turns out it was having some issue with the coils according to the salesman when I told him that it was struggling to get into gear when shifting. He took it out for a drive with me in it and it was the same thing and said he will have it replaced. That being said, with all of your help I'm getting a lot of insight into maintenance and proper purchasing techniques as well as things to look out for. It is a fleet vehicle and listed as structural damage, however the salesman showed me photos that were just a little damage to the tie downs when trailered to auction. The small used car dealership has their own servicing shop and has rebuilt the turbos, replaced the timing chain, and a couple other things listed in the photo below. I don't see any PTU replacement or water pump which I hear are pretty common issues at around this mileage, however where I live, it is the best one with PP plus all of these things minus the PTU and water pump. Is that something I should stay away from? Please note that this dealer seems trustworthy, he even showed me his screen how much they bought it for, how much they are selling it for as well as how much in maintenance and repairs they've put into it and they're not even breaking even (they paid 15k, asking 19.9k and have put over 4 grand into repairs). I'll attach photos below. I live in Minnesota and this vehicle also is Florida driven which saves me travelling costs which is also very appealing to me as my budget isn't massive. I'm going to test drive it again with these new coils replaced on Tuesday and just need any and all insight I can get for what to look for when test driving it and checking it out. I apologize if this was kind of long winded and all over the place, however I greatly appreciate whatever insight can be given to me.

https://www.kbb.com/ford/taurus/2016/sho-sedan-4d/?color=silver&condition=good&intent=buy-used&mileage=86651&options=7272148%7Ctrue%7C6977496%7Ctrue%7C6977439%7Ctrue%7C7272141%7Cfalse%7C6977261%7Ctrue&pricetype=retail&vehicleid=414748

CARFAX Account

Thanks in advance

 

[Ta2dResqr]

Why was cylinder #6 piston replaced?

Water Pump should have been done when the chain was replaced as it is chain driven. See if you can get a parts list from the chain replacement. If they skimped on the water pump, it brings into question guides, tensioners, phasers, VVT solenoids, VVT seals, spark plug seals, etc.

Why were the turbos rebuilt and what kit did they use? Did they replace the oil line/filter?

These would be my initial questions and concerns. Next problem is the structural damage. While it may only be the tie downs, if the title is branded, it severely changes the value of the car. If you ever decide to sell it, this will make the value less and harder to sell. In general, a branded title is worth 20-40% less then a clean title. That means the $23,456 KBB becomes $14,073-$18,764. That is a judgement call for yourself. Is this something you are going to drive into the dirt and don't care about resale?

 

[BradM]

My apologize if this is a repost and long winded, however I feel my situation is a little different. I'll try and keep it short but detailed. I found a 2016 PP SHO an hour or so away from me, went to check it out and turns out it was having some issue with the coils according to the salesman when I told him that it was struggling to get into gear when shifting. He took it out for a drive with me in it and it was the same thing and said he will have it replaced. That being said, with all of your help I'm getting a lot of insight into maintenance and proper purchasing techniques as well as things to look out for. It is a fleet vehicle and listed as structural damage, however the salesman showed me photos that were just a little damage to the tie downs when trailered to auction. The small used car dealership has their own servicing shop and has rebuilt the turbos, replaced the timing chain, and a couple other things listed in the photo below. I don't see any PTU replacement or water pump which I hear are pretty common issues at around this mileage, however where I live, it is the best one with PP plus all of these things minus the PTU and water pump. Is that something I should stay away from? Please note that this dealer seems trustworthy, he even showed me his screen how much they bought it for, how much they are selling it for as well as how much in maintenance and repairs they've put into it and they're not even breaking even (they paid 15k, asking 19.9k and have put over 4 grand into repairs). I'll attach photos below. I live in Minnesota and this vehicle also is Florida driven which saves me travelling costs which is also very appealing to me as my budget isn't massive. I'm going to test drive it again with these new coils replaced on Tuesday and just need any and all insight I can get for what to look for when test driving it and checking it out. I apologize if this was kind of long winded and all over the place, however I greatly appreciate whatever insight can be given to me.

https://www.kbb.com/ford/taurus/2016/sho-sedan-4d/?color=silver&condition=good&intent=buy-used&mileage=86651&options=7272148%7Ctrue%7C6977496%7Ctrue%7C6977439%7Ctrue%7C7272141%7Cfalse%7C6977261%7Ctrue&pricetype=retail&vehicleid=414748

CARFAX Account

Thanks in advance

I'd walk away if it were me. Weird failures and repairs at that mileage (and coils causing shift issues...face palm); damaged title is not for damaged tie downs (requires an insurance claim; the purchaser would be stupid to re-title the car with this damage); the price not great (no way they paid 15k for a fleet vehicle at auction and needing that much work). Keep looking, these aren't that rare that you need to settle. Just my two cents.

 

[Krumm]

Why was cylinder #6 piston replaced?

Water Pump should have been done when the chain was replaced as it is chain driven. See if you can get a parts list from the chain replacement. If they skimped on the water pump, it brings into question guides, tensioners, phasers, VVT solenoids, VVT seals, spark plug seals, etc.

Why were the turbos rebuilt and what kit did they use? Did they replace the oil line/filter?

These would be my initial questions and concerns. Next problem is the structural damage. While it may only be the tie downs, if the title is branded, it severely changes the value of the car. If you ever decide to sell it, this will make the value less and harder to sell. In general, a branded title is worth 20-40% less then a clean title. That means the $23,456 KBB becomes $14,073-$18,764. That is a judgement call for yourself. Is this something you are going to drive into the dirt and don't care about resale?

To answer your first topic, he said the water pump was done at the time they replaced the timing chain, I'm currently asking about a PN for the turbo rebuild kit that was used. As for the structural damage, the title is clean which is why I'm not too worried about it. That coupled with the fact he showed me photos of the structural damage that is listed. However, a couple new issues have arose. It turns out it's not coils, he said they swapped coils and plugs but that wasn't the issue. Then said there's something more serious going on with cylinder 4 that will require some more in depth testing. All that being said, the fact they are shelling all the money out into this thing and making sizeable repairs adds to the value of the vehicle doesn't it? Rather knowing they replaced these things than buying one that might be on the edge of the same issues. He's completely transparent about everything which is awesome to see. This is the only 2016+ within my price range that doesn't require travel. I believe he did buy it from the auction for 15k as I said the title is clean. I also listed the Carfax report and seller page as well. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Krumm]

I'd walk away if it were me. Weird failures and repairs at that mileage (and coils causing shift issues...face palm); damaged title is not for damaged tie downs (requires an insurance claim; the purchaser would be stupid to re-title the car with this damage); the price not great (no way they paid 15k for a fleet vehicle at auction and needing that much work). Keep looking, these aren't that rare that you need to settle. Just my two cents.

Thank you for your input! However, the title is clean as listed in the Carfax report which I attached to the thread. The guy showed me the photos where the tie downs were stretched just a little bit.

 

[FREAK_SHO]

Auto reports are not the end all be all. I've looked at cars with "clean" reports and found damage repair the was "fixed" and not reported.

There seems to be a lot going on with that car, and I agree with the others. Walk away from this one, there are plenty of others out there that won't come back to haunt you after purchase.

At the end of the day, your decision only. Do what you will with the advice given.

 

[kryptto]

I know I am late to this discussion, I too would walk away with the info this group has presented. these cars brand new without proper maintenance can be a bear to deal with. Seems like they are chasing issues while you are asking questions.

 

[GTRPhilly]

My apologize if this is a repost and long winded, however I feel my situation is a little different. I'll try and keep it short but detailed. I found a 2016 PP SHO an hour or so away from me, went to check it out and turns out it was having some issue with the coils according to the salesman when I told him that it was struggling to get into gear when shifting. He took it out for a drive with me in it and it was the same thing and said he will have it replaced. That being said, with all of your help I'm getting a lot of insight into maintenance and proper purchasing techniques as well as things to look out for. It is a fleet vehicle and listed as structural damage, however the salesman showed me photos that were just a little damage to the tie downs when trailered to auction. The small used car dealership has their own servicing shop and has rebuilt the turbos, replaced the timing chain, and a couple other things listed in the photo below. I don't see any PTU replacement or water pump which I hear are pretty common issues at around this mileage, however where I live, it is the best one with PP plus all of these things minus the PTU and water pump. Is that something I should stay away from? Please note that this dealer seems trustworthy, he even showed me his screen how much they bought it for, how much they are selling it for as well as how much in maintenance and repairs they've put into it and they're not even breaking even (they paid 15k, asking 19.9k and have put over 4 grand into repairs). I'll attach photos below. I live in Minnesota and this vehicle also is Florida driven which saves me travelling costs which is also very appealing to me as my budget isn't massive. I'm going to test drive it again with these new coils replaced on Tuesday and just need any and all insight I can get for what to look for when test driving it and checking it out. I apologize if this was kind of long winded and all over the place, however I greatly appreciate whatever insight can be given to me.

https://www.kbb.com/ford/taurus/2016/sho-sedan-4d/?color=silver&condition=good&intent=buy-used&mileage=86651&options=7272148%7Ctrue%7C6977496%7Ctrue%7C6977439%7Ctrue%7C7272141%7Cfalse%7C6977261%7Ctrue&pricetype=retail&vehicleid=414748

CARFAX Account

Thanks in advance

Looks like we were in the same market, at least according to the kbb. There are lots of SHO’s in this area right now. I just picked one up from Avon MA.

But, this particular one seems to have a weird history. I’ve personally never heard of one piston being replaced, more interesting why was it replaced? Seems this one may have had a tough life or an unlucky life. Either way use caution and make a sound decision. It’s tough to hold back the excitement, but don’t let it mess you up.

Good luck

 

[GTRPhilly]

I forgot one thing. It’s sounds like you are into it. Do yourself a favor and at the very least have a compression test done.

 

[Krumm]

I forgot one thing. It’s sounds like you are into it. Do yourself a favor and at the very least have a compression test done.

Yep that is on my list along with my buddy or at least a reputable shop in the area to give it a thorough PPI.

 

[Krumm]

Looks like we were in the same market, at least according to the kbb. There are lots of SHO’s in this area right now. I just picked one up from Avon MA.

But, this particular one seems to have a weird history. I’ve personally never heard of one piston being replaced, more interesting why was it replaced? Seems this one may have had a tough life or an unlucky life. Either way use caution and make a sound decision. It’s tough to hold back the excitement, but don’t let it mess you up.

Good luck

Yeah I feel that man. See I've found some out of state but none that I necessarily want to catch a flight for. My luck, they have the same issues and maybe even worse. I'm going to see if I can get a straight answer for piston 6 and 4. My guess it has something to do with the timing being off? Only thing I can think of but let me know if you think it could be something else.

 

[Krumm]

Auto reports are not the end all be all. I've looked at cars with "clean" reports and found damage repair the was "fixed" and not reported.

There seems to be a lot going on with that car, and I agree with the others. Walk away from this one, there are plenty of others out there that won't come back to haunt you after purchase.

At the end of the day, your decision only. Do what you will with the advice given.

See everyone keeps saying there are others out there however a deep dive with AI, and very few within my price range and none that I want to risk a flight for. Thank you for your input.

 

[BradM]

See everyone keeps saying there are others out there however a deep dive with AI, and very few within my price range and none that I want to risk a flight for. Thank you for your input.

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FWIW I'm in Chicago and bought mine in Minneapolis

 

[FREAK_SHO]

Bought mine 3 hrs away from my home as well.

Took a lot of searching...

 

[Krumm]

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FWIW I'm in Chicago and bought mine in Minneapolis

You took mine

 

[ShoGun-]

It seems like you really want that car an that nobody can talk you out of buying it.. I would run away from this one. Buddy of mine ran into some of the same issues couple years ago a the engine was toast..junk!!

 

[Ta2dResqr]

First cylinder 6, now cylinder 4. Can you afford cylinder 5, 2 months after you buy it? Then, when does the other bank start failing? All of the same parts have been through the same care, abuse, treatment and are likely to fail around similar times. Especially when more then one has already failed. What happened to cylinder 6 (and now 4)? Did they slap a piston in it and call it a day? Was that cylinder honed? Did they do any bearings while it was apart? There is 24.6 hours labor in remove and replace a single cylinder.

The carfax link you provided simply takes me to carfax.com.

Your picture shows replaced timing chain and rebuilt both turbos for under $2300. O'Reilly's does not list a kit with the water pump. The timing kit is $250. Water pump is $100. 2 turbo cartridges are $500. You are $850 into parts already. This does not include coolant, oil, turbo oil lines/filters, turbo gaskets, intake gaskets, the special sealant for the timing cover, vvt seals, coil seals, phasers, vvt solenoids, thermostat, etc. that normally would be of concern and are all removed in order to replace the above parts. On top of that, there is 6.9 hours labor to remove and replace the turbos plus rebuild time. There is 13.4 hours in labor to replace the water pump/chain.

They replaced only 2 coils. Can you afford to replace the other 4?

At this point, even if they are only paying their tech $20/hr, they are over $20k into this car. They are trying to cut every corner, save every dime, and offload this car on the first sucker that comes a long. Please, don't be that guy. I know when you think you have found "the one" it is hard for anyone to talk you out of it. From your responses, like everyone else has said, it looks like your mind is made up. I hope you take the advice of the experience here and run from this car. It will be a money pit and a headache.

Looking on Car Gurus, I searched within 100 miles of 55440 and there are 5 SHO under $20k. 2 with under 80k. If you open that up to ship to home options (included in the price), there are 11 options under $20k, 4 with under 100k on them. There is a black one from Texas with 61k for $19k and it should be a rust free southern car. (It is a 2013, the other 3 are 2016-2017.)

 

[Krumm]

First cylinder 6, now cylinder 4. Can you afford cylinder 5, 2 months after you buy it? Then, when does the other bank start failing? All of the same parts have been through the same care, abuse, treatment and are likely to fail around similar times. Especially when more then one has already failed. What happened to cylinder 6 (and now 4)? Did they slap a piston in it and call it a day? Was that cylinder honed? Did they do any bearings while it was apart? There is 24.6 hours labor in remove and replace a single cylinder.

The carfax link you provided simply takes me to carfax.com.

Your picture shows replaced timing chain and rebuilt both turbos for under $2300. O'Reilly's does not list a kit with the water pump. The timing kit is $250. Water pump is $100. 2 turbo cartridges are $500. You are $850 into parts already. This does not include coolant, oil, turbo oil lines/filters, turbo gaskets, intake gaskets, the special sealant for the timing cover, vvt seals, coil seals, phasers, vvt solenoids, thermostat, etc. that normally would be of concern and are all removed in order to replace the above parts. On top of that, there is 6.9 hours labor to remove and replace the turbos plus rebuild time. There is 13.4 hours in labor to replace the water pump/chain.

They replaced only 2 coils. Can you afford to replace the other 4?

At this point, even if they are only paying their tech $20/hr, they are over $20k into this car. They are trying to cut every corner, save every dime, and offload this car on the first sucker that comes a long. Please, don't be that guy. I know when you think you have found "the one" it is hard for anyone to talk you out of it. From your responses, like everyone else has said, it looks like your mind is made up. I hope you take the advice of the experience here and run from this car. It will be a money pit and a headache.

Looking on Car Gurus, I searched within 100 miles of 55440 and there are 5 SHO under $20k. 2 with under 80k. If you open that up to ship to home options (included in the price), there are 11 options under $20k, 4 with under 100k on them. There is a black one from Texas with 61k for $19k and it should be a rust free southern car. (It is a 2013, the other 3 are 2016-2017.)

Yes believe me all of your advice is not going to waste. I am taking everything into account. At the same time, it looks to be they are replacing everything that is wrong. I will be getting a full parts list and then will update it here to see what all was replaced and with what parts. I'm looking for 2016+, and I have found 3 near me under 100k miles and under 20k. Plus I'm not able to travel. On top of that, every other one I have looked at has minimal maintenance history. Yes this one has had some issues but at least I know they are being fixed for that piece of mind. When I get a call back about the verdict on cylinder 4 my plan is to take it to a buddy or a local shop for a full inspection, bore scope and compression test. Won't these tests shed light on any other further cylinder issues?

 

[Krumm]

It seems like you really want that car an that nobody can talk you out of buying it.. I would run away from this one. Buddy of mine ran into some of the same issues couple years ago a the engine was toast..junk!!

What ended up happening?

 

[Ta2dResqr]

Yes believe me all of your advice is not going to waste. I am taking everything into account. At the same time, it looks to be they are replacing everything that is wrong. I will be getting a full parts list and then will update it here to see what all was replaced and with what parts. I'm looking for 2016+, and I have found 3 near me under 100k miles and under 20k. Plus I'm not able to travel. On top of that, every other one I have looked at has minimal maintenance history. Yes this one has had some issues but at least I know they are being fixed for that piece of mind. When I get a call back about the verdict on cylinder 4 my plan is to take it to a buddy or a local shop for a full inspection, bore scope and compression test. Won't these tests shed light on any other further cylinder issues?

Not necessarily. Depends what and why they are failing. They also won't be able to determine the amount of life left on the other 4 coils. Beyond cylinder issues, you still have all of the labor intensive parts that should have been replaced with the chain that need done. The fact that you are putting money into this car (paying for the labor/inspection) after all the advice and problems presented, just shows that you are sold on this car already. I suggest the next steps are a second job and becoming real familiar with the Gen 4 Maintenance & Troubleshooting section. Find a mechanic whose kids you want to put through school or invest in a great tool set.

What ended up happening?

I'm guessing the guy either had to pay for a motor ($3k-5k for a junkyard motor), labor (~20hrs), and all the needed maintenance of the replacement motor or he sold the car stupid cheap/scrapped it and lost a ton of money in the deal.