GTP control arms

[Electricat]

Long ago TCE used to make adjustable arms that are considered by some to be the best. Todd hasn't made these for years and keeps swearing that he's not going to make any more, so this is only an option if you can find a used set for sale, which doesn't happen very often.

Anybody have a photo of these? I will eventually be building my own set of adjustable arms, and for now I'm just trying to get ideas on different ways of getting the job done. I"m familiar with the GM arms, and the heim jointed arms....what is different/better about what TCE made?

 

[syP]

holy shit... SHOs upgrading to a GTP part for suspension???? what has this world come to...




Email [email protected]

he is our parts guy... he will sell you all you need for SUPER cheap

 

[SHO_Diehard]

Another Option for Rear Adjustment

Actually, there is a another option for rear camber adjustment, and it's low-buck too. Check out the following post:

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=47714&highlight=adjustable

I took the easy way out and just got the adjustable rear arms off my parts car (RIP) and put them on in the forward rear control arm positions. Now I have four control arms with the standard ford adjustment instead of just two. One downside, one of the arms is backward and the adjustment is outboard, not inboard. Not perfect, but I wanted more adjustment for the convention trip last summer and I got it. Also, there is not a lot of adjustment range, but at least it's better than stock. Going with pjtoledo's full mod would address both shortcomings.

One thing I like about this is I've never heard of anyone bending the ford arms in normal open track use, as sometimes happens to the GM arms.

Credit to pjtoledo for thinking of this approach.

 

[SASHO91]

The GM arms should arguably be the best for NVH since they have the most compliant bushings (I think better than the stock SHO arms)!

Dale used bigger hardware instead of the reducing sleves. So he may have used different bushings...

 

[LOUDSHO92]

We will probabaly have both options. Give me a day or 2.

Your parts guy where does he work?

 

[DemonNeno]

My '89 has adjustable bushings installed in all 4 arms out back, i believe SHO Shop used to sell these. The problem is the rear is at -0.5 degrees and that's as far negative as i can get it! All 4 bushings seem to be the same side and have the same offset for the eccentric.

When will these SHO bros arms become available and what would the price be? My SLICERS rub the 1/4s when i hit bumps b/c of all this positive camber!!

 

[LOUDSHO92]

Around $270 and they should be up soon.

 

[DemonNeno]

awesome! can't wait!

 

[DHMag]

Dale used bigger hardware instead of the reducing sleves. So he may have used different bushings...

i did not change the bushings, just honed out the outside bushing to accept 9/16" hardware.

 

[shomesomesho]

One thing I like about this is I've never heard of anyone bending the ford arms in normal open track use, as sometimes happens to the GM arms.

You can actually flex the GM arms with your bare hands. Not a very comforting observation if you are going to run them on a track or autocross car.

I run the GM arms on my autocross car, regrettably. The rear alignment gets out of whack after each meet. And I don't go running sideways into curbs, UFO's, referees, lam posts, or other heavy objects. Admittedly, I do hit plenty of cones, more than I probably should, and at times sideways, and there are plenty of cone scars on the exterior of my SHO to attest to this fact, but I doubt it's the cones themselves that are altering the rear alignment.

I'm considering welding some square tubing to the GM arms to stiffen them up, but I would hate to add extra weight to a car that willingly suffers from anorexia nervosa. Either that or use the pjtoledo technique if it could provide the proper range of adjustment I need.

 

[Shoaz]

It's been mentioned before, but there's not much way that the rear arms aren't only (or at least mostly) under either tension or compression, i.e., it's probably not a big deal that they flex a bit. Why they're losing your alignment setting may be a different problem, but stiffening them up may not hurt anything.

The BMR arms and probably any other replacement arm are going to be quite a bit heavier than the stock GM arms, but that's the price to pay for stiffness.

Lance has pointed out previously, too, that if you hit something hard there may be an advantage to having relatively weak arms in the rear since they're comparatively inexpensive and easy to change out. i.e., let the arms bend rather than tweaking the torque box or cracking a wheel or knuckle.

 

[jedhead]

You can contact Todd at TCE Performance and see if he will make his adjustable arms. They are extreme duty and will not bend in your hands. They are not cheap.

Bob

 

[DemonNeno]

I'm considering welding some square tubing to the GM arms to stiffen them up, but I would hate to add extra weight to a car that willingly suffers from anorexia nervosa. Either that or use the pjtoledo technique if it could provide the proper range of adjustment I need.

Not to mention the fact of increasing stress cracks on the arms! If you can bend the OE GTP arms with your hands, adding tubing to them will only band-aid the problem = thin tube stock control arms. At that rate, you can probably utilize the OE GTP threaded sleeve and ends of the GTP arms for thicker, strong tube stock and weld the ends on that, thread the tube, and use the sleeve....

OR for ~$270, you can pick up some awesome (hopefully ) RCAs from SHO bros!

 

[shomesomesho]

Not to mention the fact of increasing stress cracks on the arms! If you can bend the OE GTP arms with your hands, adding tubing to them will only band-aid the problem = thin tube stock control arms. At that rate, you can probably utilize the OE GTP threaded sleeve and ends of the GTP arms for thicker, strong tube stock and weld the ends on that, thread the tube, and use the sleeve....

OR for ~$270, you can pick up some awesome (hopefully ) RCAs from SHO bros!

Uhmmm.. these are the GM GTP arms that I'm talking about. You can flex them with your hands. And I'm no body builder, either. I believe this is the same thing SHO Bros will be selling.. correct me if I'm wrong??

 

[Shoaz]

I think a relevant data point is whether they bend on GTPs or not. There are enough folks on this forum with GTPs that if the control arms were bending on the street (which is harsher in many ways than a track), I think it'd be pretty well known.

Clearly they can bend, and have in at least one case that I know, but I don't think they're unsafe or a liability. I suspect that if you can't keep an alignment in the rear that something is up, either bushings are going bad or one or more of the arms isn't staying locked. I don't think it's because the arms aren't strong enough.

 

[shomesomesho]

Maybe it's the bushings in the GM control arms being too soft that's contributing to the unstable alignment?

I don't mean to blow this out of proportion. When I say the alignment gets out of whack, I'm talking fairly small amounts like 1/4 degree camber or 1/16" of toe here and there. Probably not enough for most drivers to notice. Most people probably aren't this ****-retentive to the point they check the alignment before and after autocross events, so they are never aware of the change. To me it matters, when competing for sub-tenths of a second which could potentially place you 3 to 4 spots higher in the ranks at the end of the day.

What I can definitely say is that my front alignment does not change this much, and neither did the rears when I had the stock Taurus control arms on board.

 

[Shoaz]

I suppose it's possible that the bushings are more compliant than expected.

When you're checking alignment do you use anything under the tires to relieve stress? It could just be that the car is sitting differently each time you take a measurement. In the past I've used two 12"x12"x1/8" white board with grease in between them under each wheel. This not only allows you to move the alignment more easily, but it takes any torque or lateral stress out of the tire so that the bushings are all free each time.

Another thing you might do is just give an eyeball check along each arm when you think the alignment has changed to verify that they're straight. It's like checking a board for straightness; if you can look down the length of it it's easy to spot any bending that may be present.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

No these will not be GTPs they will be different. Should have them up very soon. We want to release them with they items that we will be coming out with very soon, like maybe today or tomorrow.

 

[DemonNeno]

Uhmmm.. these are the GM GTP arms that I'm talking about. You can flex them with your hands. And I'm no body builder, either. I believe this is the same thing SHO Bros will be selling.. correct me if I'm wrong??

I know they are GTP arms you are bending, that is my point. If they are constructed of a flimsy product, bracing the flimsy product will be a bandaid that will fail. You're better off constructing a stronger product using leftovers of what can be salvaged of the OE GTP arms if you choose to strengthen them rather than adding "braces".

As they have already stated before, the SHO Bros arms are to be comparable to the strength of BMR units.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

Might want to look here: Control arms