Diagnosing a front end clicking/clunk... PROBLEM SOLVED!

[boat]

As the title says, I am trying to diagnose this clunk I am having in my front end. Its more like a clicking clunk type noise, I get the noise on both sides when I am on uneven road, with variations in the pavement, and mainly when I turn right. Here is what I have done with new parts:

Quick Struts/Springs: 13k miles ago
LCA's: 4k-6k miles ago
Front Endlinks Moog greasables: new
Strut Rod Bushings (both ends): 6k miles ago
Strut Rod caps welded: Wednesday of this week
ALSFB: Last weekend
Subframe recall kit: done by previous owner
Replaced driver side axle: 6k miles ago (got a used one from Bizzy, looked like new)
Driver side wheel bearing: Last weekend
Re-enforced front and rear motor mounts, front from SHOSource, the rear from SHONUT




After getting the strut rod caps welded the clicking clunk became worse. So I went to Jayro's last night and we went through everything in the front suspension and checked ALL of the torque values in the entire front suspension, and everything was good, couple things were a little bit loose, but tightened up no problem. The ALSFB are torqued to 100 ft lbs. I stuck a pry bar down by the ball joints and moved the pry bar, but no movement out of the ball joint, rock solid. Took it back out for a drive and still had the clicking clunk.

Now, I am realizing one of things I have not replaced, outer tie-rod ends. Could that be causing this clicking clunk IN the way it was described ABOVE??? OR could be both axles?? Rack?? As far as the rack goes, there is no excessive play or anything else in it, nice smooth steering. I do not want to just throw parts at this, I would like correctly diagnose this and fix it, without wasting money, as money is pretty tight.

Please help.... Anyone have any ideas?

 

[K-Dawg]

I don't see strut mounts on your list.

 

[boat]

Fixed. They were a part of the quick struts...

I don't see strut mounts on your list.

 

[elarm1]

check axles for play?

 

[rubydist]

I have had that sort of noise from a sway bar end link that was not quite tight. over some bumps it would make noise, other bumps it would not....

 

[Eric VerValin]

100lbs isn't even near what I put on my ALSFB's. And the only way I can get my subframe to settle down and be quiet, is to jack the car up on the weight of the subframe, then tighten it. Don't let it hang as it dosen't seem to get nearly as tight.

Does it pop or creak when you pull into a driveway? Thats when I used to notice a pop or creak when my subframe bolts were loose. But yea that 100lbs is a silly number to me.

 

[jmpSHO]

^What he said. Definately tighten those bushings as much as you can and don't torque them. The are not factory bushings so you shouldn't torque them to factory specs. Use an impact gun if possible. Mine had to be retightened a few times before they stopped making use.

 

[boat]

We checked that. It didn't seem to move much at all, like maybe a 1/4 inch back and forth, if that. Is there any other way to check the axles?

check axles for play?

I realized I have not replaced the swaybar bushings, those might be suspect. The endlinks are brand new and were tightened well, we checked the torque on the topsides of those links, but not the bottom (couldn't fit the torque wrench in there to the swaybar end of that link). Going to check that torque with the car on the ground.

I have had that sort of noise from a sway bar end link that was not quite tight. over some bumps it would make noise, other bumps it would not....

The alsfb's bolts were put on with an impact. The torque wrench easily clicked at 100ft lbs, which tells me they are tighter than 100 ft lbs. I checked them Saturday after we put them in, and almost a week later they were still tight and clicked easily with the torque wrench. This time they were checked with a jackstand under the subframe.
No pops or creaks per say. The noise was there before the alsfb's and got worse after I had the strut rod caps welded. I will keep an eye on the subframe bolts. I have heard other people say, 100ft lbs worked for them on those. We shall see.

100lbs isn't even near what I put on my ALSFB's. And the only way I can get my subframe to settle down and be quiet, is to jack the car up on the weight of the subframe, then tighten it. Don't let it hang as it dosen't seem to get nearly as tight.

Does it pop or creak when you pull into a driveway? Thats when I used to notice a pop or creak when my subframe bolts were loose. But yea that 100lbs is a silly number to me.

What is the stock torque specs? I had thought it was 85-100 ft lbs, so we tightened them with the impact first then checked them w/the torque wrench. Jayro told me, he always used the impact to put his in and never had any issues with them coming loose, so that was how we did mine.

^What he said. Definately tighten those bushings as much as you can and don't torque them. The are not factory bushings so you shouldn't torque them to factory specs. Use an impact gun if possible. Mine had to be retightened a few times before they stopped making use.

 

[Eric VerValin]

It's not loose so much as it just simply slides around a little when it meets funny angles. I put mine on with Doug's 3/4" IR impact on 120psi of air, and I still needed to put "the bar" on it.

Now that being said... usually when mine makes "the subframe noise" It's usually only about 1/8th of a turn on the right corner to make it be quiet. There's a real fine line it seems as to what is tight enough. And the size of that bolt will take a good 400 or 500 lbs of torque I would imagine. I don't think your going to break it. This is assuming its near a 1/2" in size.. as most galvanized bolts are around 45,000 psi shear strength...

Bring it over, lets drive around... if its the subframe I'll know it in a second. And I got the bar.. woot! The little dip in my driveway here should be just the hill to diagnose it too.

 

[boat]

I'll bring it by, but the clicking clunk was there before the alsfb's were put in, then the clicking clunk was magnified after the strut rod caps were welded.

It's not loose so much as it just simply slides around a little when it meets funny angles. I put mine on with Doug's 3/4" IR impact on 120psi of air, and I still needed to put "the bar" on it.

Now that being said... usually when mine makes "the subframe noise" It's usually only about 1/8th of a turn on the right corner to make it be quiet. There's a real fine line it seems as to what is tight enough. And the size of that bolt will take a good 400 or 500 lbs of torque I would imagine. I don't think your going to break it. This is assuming its near a 1/2" in size.. as most galvanized bolts are around 45,000 psi shear strength...

Bring it over, lets drive around... if its the subframe I'll know it in a second. And I got the bar.. woot! The little dip in my driveway here should be just the hill to diagnose it too.

 

[elarm1]

I vote for a video with you driving 30mph, door open, and hanging down to "get a good pic"!

 

[boat]

How do I do this exactly? We turned it side to side (less than a 1/4 in either direction) while everything was together. Is there another way?

check axles for play?

 

[Eric VerValin]

To me it sounded like either inner tie rods, or possibly a loose rack. As in the 2 nuts are loose on the bottom of the rack. When driving that pop happens when you touch the wheel. You can't feel the pop in the wheel, but when I got underneath to check his outer tie rods, (which are fine) I could feel that pop in the rack.


I have either an inner tie rod, or worn gears in my rack.. but it feels different than his. I'm thinking it's those inners, because of mine being in the rack itself.

 

[jayro]

After we checked all the torque specs I began to think that it could be something not suspension related that was loose (bracket ect) that is shifting when the car is turned or goes over a bump. It seemed to happen mainly with right hand turns...even at very low speeds. Its not a heavy thud, almost a loud click. Hope you find it. Chasing down weird noises is never fun...especially on 16 year old cars.

 

[boat]

Its not a loose rack, at least the nuts anyway. After I changed the oil last night, I took the y-pipe down, and got a 24mm socket and tried to turn it, to tighten, nope wasn't loose at all. Nice and tight to the subframe.

To me it sounded like either inner tie rods, or possibly a loose rack. As in the 2 nuts are loose on the bottom of the rack. When driving that pop happens when you touch the wheel. You can't feel the pop in the wheel, but when I got underneath to check his outer tie rods, (which are fine) I could feel that pop in the rack.


I have either an inner tie rod, or worn gears in my rack.. but it feels different than his. I'm thinking it's those inners, because of mine being in the rack itself.

I am thinking it is probably inner-tie rod noise, If I am going that far, I may just replace the whole rack. What else could it be? The noise seems to be coming from the middle of the car, and you can feel it vibrate through the floor.

After we checked all the torque specs I began to think that it could be something not suspension related that was loose (bracket ect) that is shifting when the car is turned or goes over a bump. It seemed to happen mainly with right hand turns...even at very low speeds. Its not a heavy thud, almost a loud click. Hope you find it. Chasing down weird noises is never fun...especially on 16 year old cars.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Its in that rack man... get someone to turn that wheel for ya, and grab ahold of the tie rods like I did. You can feel it for sure in there. If its not that, the only other thing I can think of that would feel like that is the nut on top of the rack there.

But yea, if your going to do those inners... might as well do the rack...

 

[dward]

I have a rattle noise from my left front brake. Guessing the pads are loose enough to make noise. I have the misfortune of living down a dirt road. Like you i have changed everything subframe and suspension related and this is what im left with. Try hitting the bumps that cause your noise but lightly riding the brakes.

 

[Eric VerValin]

It's not bumps that is causing it, its turning the wheel side to side when driving.

 

[boat]

On the contrary, it does happen when I hit bumps in the road, or un-level parts of the pavement, and when turning the wheel side to side.

It's not bumps that is causing it, its turning the wheel side to side when driving.

 

[jmpSHO]

Are your sway bar end links tight? I had a similar problem after I installed my Gen 3 bushings on my Gen 2. I even went and had my strut cups welded in place (which needed to be done anyways) and after I drove it the noise was still there and it ended up being a loose bolt on my sway bar end link. If the bolts seem to be tight on the end links could it be possible that you cross threaded a bolt?

Also I don't see new sway bar bushings on your new parts list.