Bent Pinch Welds!! D@#$%!!!

[rcryniak]

Time for a bit of a rant (sorry!)

OOOkay, so for those of you not following along with my recent adventures at the dealership, I was sick with the flu a couple weekends ago, and really needed to get my oil changed, so I took it to the dealership, gave them my supplies and said "go". When I got it back, the guy had put in 7 qts. I caught it when I put the remainder on the shelf and noticed there was only 3 qts left. The tech claims he thought the bottles are supplied were 4 qts, not 5 qts. Yah. Uh-huh. This is allegedly one of their "more experienced" techs, or so the service manager said. So I pull out the extra quart with my topsider pump (so much fun working on my car with the flu) and noticed the oil was exceptionally dark for only ONE MILE... like pancake syrup but not quite as translucent. It's like he didn't change the filter, didn't drain fully, or both. I don't know. As you might be able to tell, I'm still a little annoyed at that whole situation. It's at best, careless and sloppy. At any rate, that's the background for the current situation.

So, anyhow... I've also been thinking of getting a very inexpensive portable lift so I'm not jacking up the car one side at a time with loose lugs (to do rotations) because it just feels wrong somehow; like I could drop the car having all that weight on on side, on angle, with loose lugs. Visions of lugs snapping and wheels falling off haunt me when I lift the car until it's on jacks. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I would just feel better with a "lift the whole damn thing at once" scenario. So, I was taking measurements today to make sure the one I'm looking at will fit my car, latitudinal/across (pinch weld to pinch weld) and the longitudinal/length of the jacking points on the inside and outside of the "hole" in the rocker panel, plus the two nearest smaller holes I use for the floor jack.

In taking the measurements, I noticed the pinch weld on the passenger rear factory jack point is split and one side is bent outward - like only the corner of a lift pad was placed just on the edge, where it caught the one side, but not the other, causing it to bend outward. Awesome.



I was hovering around the bay when the tech was working on my car, not watching him per sé, but just talking cars with various people, like the GM (very cool guy) and the tech (who was surprised his F-150 EcoBoost gets far slower 1/4 mile times than me... I'm still scratching my head on that one. ) Anyhow, I do recall thinking my rocker panel looked weird when the car was on their lift, like the placement of the lifting pad wasn't right and was squishing it a little, but it's plastic, so it's fine... and I'm a very trusting person and I've been a customer for many years, etc., plus I'm kind of a noob when it comes to working on cars (only about a year now) so I didn't want to presume to tell someone far more experienced how to do his job.

Anyhow, now that the pinch weld is jacked (haha) wtf do I do?? I already feel unsafe lifting the car myself, but not so much I can't get it done. (That's an arguably healthier attitude then being like "who gives a crap, just get it up there, it'll be OK.") Now I feel even less safe, knowing there's a particularly weak point on one of the lifting points of the car. Plus - he damaged my baby... there are just no words. I'm extremely ******. An extra quart is easy to fix and easy to forgive. This has me just freaking mad.

OK, rant over... seriously, what do I do with this? I can't prove it was him, so I'll likely have to pay for it to be repaired... but can it be properly repaired? Seems to me that once metal gets bent, it's never quite as strong, so I'm also wondering is there a way to reinforce these as well? Any thoughts, suggestions, etc. are welcome.

 

[SilverSH0]

I think what you're looking at is normal and it's that way from the factory. I looked at all 4 jack points on my Taurus and all 4 jack points on my wife's Kia and they all look like that. They all have the little bent area. I think you're fine. Look at the other jack areas, do they look like that also?

 

[rcryniak]

Really? That's odd yours are like that. I wonder if someone wasn't jacking up your rides too.

Bottom line, This is actually not the same condition as it was last i lifted it. I inspect the lift points every time i do a lift. (At the recommendation of a friend.) Further, all my other jack points are solid with no bends or folds. My wife's Escape's jack points are equally intact.

I can't imagine ANY manufacturer would design jack points to be weaker than the rest of the pinch weld. Not to be rude, but that doesn't make very much sense to me.

 

[SilverSH0]

Really? That's odd yours are like that. I wonder if someone wasn't jacking up your rides too.

Bottom line, This is actually not the same condition as it was last i lifted it. I inspect the lift points every time i do a lift. (At the recommendation of a friend.) Further, all my other jack points are solid with no bends or folds. My wife's Escape's jack points are equally intact.

I can't imagine ANY manufacturer would design jack points to be weaker than the rest of the pinch weld. Not to be rude, but that doesn't make very much sense to me.

just to be sure we're on the same page, you're talking about that little flared out piece right?

First you're making the assumption that makes it weaker in any significant way.

Second, I bought my wife's Kia new and it's never been to any shop. I do all the work myself and have never jacked up the vehicle by the pinch weld. I know it came that way from the factory. On my car I bought it used, but find it very unlikely all 4 we're bent and bent the same shape. I'll take a picture of mine tonight.

 

[SilverSH0]

I took a picture of the back side of the jack point. This is what it looks like if viewed from the center of the car out towards the side.

As you can see, that bump looks like it was formed from the factory. There's no distorted or cracked metal that would be caused by bending from a jack. Additionally there are 2 spot welds right next to it (all of this is the same on all 4 corners). My guess is they flare it out and then back in order to give it some additional rigidity on the horizontal plane. It would help keep the weld from folding up towards the body.

What do your other 3 non-bent corners look like from this view? If they're flat there must have been some sort of redesign from 2010 to your vehicle year.

 

[rcryniak]

Well, it's certainly interesting that you have that flare there - which I agree clearly looks manufactured. However, you may have noticed that mine doesn't look manufactured but damaged. I've already stated that they weren't that way before I took the car to the dealership, and I noticed it afterwards when taking measurements. Believe me, there's no way in **** I'm gonna sit here and rant if all the pinch welds were the same just based on how it "looks" to me at the time. No, this was damage done at the dealership, just recently. As stated. However, I do appreciate the attempt at consolation, it was nice of you. Sadly, it's definitely a case of sloppy worksmanship resulting in damage, which is heartbreaking.

Anyhow, in case you're not convinced with my simply saying so, I photographed the other side for comparison. Other than it being a 2012 in the rust belt (therefore not looking nearly as spiffy as your pinch weld) you can see that there's no flare of any kind, neither manufacturer imprinted nor damaged into existence:



Now, having demonstrated that it isn't "normal", does anyone have any ideas how to fix it? It may not seem like a big deal if they're doing that on purpose on later models, but there's a very big difference in strength between metal that's been forcibly bend, and metal that's been formed or tempered into a particular shape.

I'd be happy to hear of any and all remedies, be they reinforcement, etc.

 

[Pintony]

Really? That's odd yours are like that. I wonder if someone wasn't jacking up your rides too.

Bottom line, This is actually not the same condition as it was last i lifted it. I inspect the lift points every time i do a lift. (At the recommendation of a friend.) Further, all my other jack points are solid with no bends or folds. My wife's Escape's jack points are equally intact.

I can't imagine ANY manufacturer would design jack points to be weaker than the rest of the pinch weld. Not to be rude, but that doesn't make very much sense to me.

I have bent steel and straightened steel on so many cars in my life...
I own a car that I restored myself and every corner was dented at one time.
I welded 156 holes "previous damage dent puller" and smoothed the metal on every panel.
Clean the area up and buy some etch primer and maybe some spray-in bed liner or undercoat.
use a body hammer and dolly to straighten the metal.
I would be more worried about all that SALT on the underside of your car rcryniak....
P.S.
Buy the guy that changed your oil some reading glasses or reading lessons!!!!
Says right on the jug 5quarts!!! and the last time I checked... There are marks on the dipstick he could read too if he was not a D.A.

 

[Pintony]

I took a picture of the back side of the jack point. This is what it looks like if viewed from the center of the car out towards the side.

As you can see, that bump looks like it was formed from the factory. There's no distorted or cracked metal that would be caused by bending from a jack. Additionally there are 2 spot welds right next to it (all of this is the same on all 4 corners). My guess is they flare it out and then back in order to give it some additional rigidity on the horizontal plane. It would help keep the weld from folding up towards the body.

What do your other 3 non-bent corners look like from this view? If they're flat there must have been some sort of redesign from 2010 to your vehicle year.

Looks good to me! SALT FREE diet?

 

[rcryniak]

Lol. Yeah... road salt's a PITA in Western PA. These days, I literally pick up enough salt on a daily basis to cover all the French Fries in Pittsburgh. I do wash it very regularly in the winter, about twice a week, depending. Most of them at the car wash, but once every week or two by hand in my garage.

 

[SilverSH0]

There must have been some change between 2010 and 2012 as your points look different. I would also follow what Pintony said and straighten the metal. Then if you want to make sure it stays in place, clean the rust/grime off and lay a small weld to hold everything together. Then grind it flat and paint to avoid corrosion.

Looks good to me! SALT FREE diet?

Yup. I'm also from the rust belt area (Indiana) but this car sticks to sunny days in the spring/summer/fall. I recently took it out of it's 3.5 month hibernation in the garage. Plus I also get a little **** about cleaning and regularly run a sprinkler (the kinds that kids jump through) under the car to clean it.

 

[rcryniak]

Ok, that sprinkler idea is actually pretty boss. That's why I've been going to the drive through wash, they do undercarriage spray, but that's 9 bucks. I'm guessing the sprinkler is about the same lol. Good tip.

Thanks also guys, for instructions" how to repair. I'll investigate welding

 

[92BlackGT]

oh wow, do not bend that metal back the 1/8" it has been deflected! it will fatigue the metal and compromise the structural integrity of the car!!
I'd sell the car now to some sucker before it falls apart and get a new car and wrap it in bubble wrap so nothing ever touches it.

 

[rcryniak]

oh wow, do not bend that metal back the 1/8" it has been deflected! it will fatigue the metal and compromise the structural integrity of the car!!

Is that true??

I'd sell the car now to some sucker before it falls apart and get a new car and wrap it in bubble wrap so nothing ever touches it.

Umm, OK, sarcasm noted. It is my daily driver, but I do take pretty darn good care of this car, so it's upsetting when some knucklehead to whom I trust the car's care does something through carelessness that damages it. I'd be equally ****** if I got it back from the dealership with a scratch on the hood. Yes, it can be buffed out and/or repainted, but I shouldn't have to deal with it, they should care for my car like I do. It's their job. Like a doctor, they're there to fix problems, not make new ones. "Do no harm." So, if there's NO way to fix it, fine, then it is what it is (I'd still be ******) but being able to fix the issue somehow would make me feel better.

 

[SilverSH0]

Is that true??

No, he's being sarcastic.

 

[Flylow11]

If the metal is bent bending it back will weaken it further. Every time you bend it the metal stretches a little more. But alot of it depends on the type of metal, alloys and tempering.

 

[SilverSH0]

If the metal is bent bending it back will weaken it further. Every time you bend it the metal stretches a little more.

Ultimately yes, bending metal will weaken the metal and it's called stress fatigue. It's called work hardening as some of the metal stretches but some also is compressed so it's not as simple as stretching metal. Depending on material, how it's bent, and to what extent it will cause work hardening of the metal. For aluminum, any slight bending will cause it to slowly fatigue. For steel, there is a minimum bend before it will start to fatigue.
Seeing as how the actual bending on the OP is pretty minor and not at an extreme angle I doubt there's much weakening. Additionally, welding the bottom together would more than make up for any lost strength due to fatigue. Plus, heating up steel is a way to alleviate metal fatigue. So if he's really concerned then he can get a torch to heat it up while he bends it back.

Bottom line is I seriously doubt it matters what the OP does to that little piece of metal. He could leave it, cut it off, bend it back (w/out weld), or bend it back and weld it and I seriously doubt it's going to make any difference. If it was mine and I did anything I would bend it back, clamp it in place, weld it, grind it flat again, and paint it. I wouldn't think twice about metal fatigue in that location with that minor bend.

 

[rcryniak]

Thanks for the input, SilverSHO. I will probably do just that.. however, it can clearly wait, but I'll keep my eye on it, just in case.

 

[92BlackGT]

Comparing a scratch on the hood and a slight deformation of metal on the bottom side of a car that is exposed to all sorts of road debris and maintenance devices is ludicrous.

 

[rcryniak]

Comparing a scratch on the hood and a slight deformation of metal on the bottom side of a car that is exposed to all sorts of road debris and maintenance devices is ludicrous.

Cosmetically speaking, you're absolutely correct... It's an unfair comparison. In the spirit of the thing, where being careless as a professional to the point where any harm to a customer's vehicle occurs is just ...messed up. Would you really shrug off any damage caused by your own dealership?? What if they cut a small hole away in the side of the glove box to get to something beyond it without having to removing it... no one would ever see it, so it doesn't detract from the beauty of the car, and being on the side, won't let anything out of the box, so no functional damage occurred. Would you really be OK with that because it didn't affect the beauty or functionality of the car? At what point then would it be acceptable or not acceptable for a dealership to damage a vehicle? What's the threshold?

To be honest, I find the apparent disregard for any bona fide carelessness of a "factory trained Ford Technician" to be ...what's that word you used... oh. Right. Ludicrous. Don't get me wrong, mistakes are mistakes, they're only human, and that's fine - I was merely annoyed by the overfilling of my oil, in the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal. I personally draw the line when I can't easily undo the mistake.

In fact, a minor scratch or dent that can be permanently removed with relative ease is arguably less offensive than damage that's much harder to undo, even if such damage isn't very significant otherwise. (But in this case, like an untreated dental cavity, I imagine it could become a festering point for rust, also being a cavity, which could eventually eat away at the pinch welds so that they become structurally unsound over time... But I digress.)

Then again, I suppose it depends on how much you love your car. If you'd be OK with vehicle damage from the dealership if it isn't a cosmetic issue, that's your prerogative. Just as it's my prerogative to be ****** about it.

 

[rcryniak]

To be honest, I think one of the reasons I'm so ****** about it, is because I really do love this dealership. I love the people, I love the smell, if I ever got a part time job for whatever reason, that's where I'd ask first. I've never bought a car anywhere else (they've always treated me well until a recent batch of service department issues, which I hope will get straightened out), and they've done most of my servicing... since 1995 when I bought my first car. In fact, there's a number of guys up there into the local performance scene and take their rides to our closest drag strip regularly. They have some sweet rides too. Anyhow, ironically, they're now one of my customers... or at least the company I work for has them as a customer. So, I don't want to **** anyone off there (hence I've not mentioned their name), they're honestly a really good group, I just think there are some issues with one or two people in the service department; so I wanted to handle this myself, rather than rock the boat and make someone else's life miserable.

I don't think it's fair for anyone to belittle my frustration by saying it's ludicrous. When I wrote the original post, it was more to the point of "how do I fix this", not "let me bitch about my dealership". (Which I clearly wound up doing anyhow, because I'm annoyed, and not having named them, I'm not doing them any harm in doing so... just venting to atmosphere.)