ATX tranny tunning

[Axianator]

hmmm... so a weak 1-2 isnt just me? its common with the sho?

Unfortunately, a soft shift schedule is standard issue for most Ford ATX's.

I was playing with the tweecer and actually had it shifting pretty good and Axianator offered a program and i'm just suplying feedback, on paper his should be better than my program but for some reason in the car its not? I would like to work with him if he wants to see what we can pull out of this thing. at times it seems as though it is on the verge of chirping the 1-2 shift on my program, one thing I noticed about the 2 programs are mine shifts hard meaning I get a nice kick in the pants when it shifts but his doesn't give that kick in the pants but it still shifts fast. why is that.

There could be (and likely are) several reasons as to why your tranny isn't responding as expected to the changes that we've made. That said, there a few Q's spring to mind:

- did you use new friction material for your rebuild or did you re-use the originals?
- did you use the "firmer" blue accumulator and capacity springs in your valve body?
- did you perform a complete kit install or did you only install one portion of it?
- did you replace or overhaul any other internal parts that were not mentioned here?

Until these (and possibly other) Q's are answered, I would not increase your line pressure settings beyond what I've already recommended via the provided calibration file (a TV value of 44 for the WOT 1-2 is much too high, even for a factory "soft" tranny). Failure to heed this warning could possibly aggravate whatever problems may exist and/or cause additional damage to the tranny.

Regarding the modified shift points, the following notes should be made:

- the 2-1 kickdown speed was raised to 35mph (which is, IMO, the maximum safest speed for the 2-1)
- the 1-2 WOT upshift speed was rasied to 45mph (sacrifices power in first for added power in second)
- the 2-3 WOT upshift speed was raised to 75mph (set 5mph above factory and is setup-specific)

As with every setup, YMMV and you will need to experiment with these values to see what works best for your particular car. That said, the values that I have provided to you via the calibration file are not merely arbitrary; rather, they are the result of many hundreds of hours of personal research and road testing in my own testbed ATX. Take them with a grain of salt and never forget to add a dash of common sense when tuning - start safe, make your changes slowly and ask Q's when needed.

edit: one last thing that I have been wondering about is creating a dyno gear, is it possible to use one of the 4 positions to force the tranny into 3rd gear with the TC locked so I can make pulls from 2500rpm all the way up without it downshifting or locking the TC half way through the pull.

Not only is this possible, but this is the method that I employ when dynoing my own ATX.

That said, all available converter functions and scalars will be included in the next public release of the software.

 

[Axianator]

hmmm... so a weak 1-2 isnt just me? its common with the sho?

Unfortunately, a soft shift schedule is standard issue for most Ford ATX's.

I was playing with the tweecer and actually had it shifting pretty good and Axianator offered a program and i'm just suplying feedback, on paper his should be better than my program but for some reason in the car its not? I would like to work with him if he wants to see what we can pull out of this thing. at times it seems as though it is on the verge of chirping the 1-2 shift on my program, one thing I noticed about the 2 programs are mine shifts hard meaning I get a nice kick in the pants when it shifts but his doesn't give that kick in the pants but it still shifts fast. why is that.

There could be (and likely are) several reasons as to why your tranny isn't responding as expected to the changes that we've made. That said, there a few Q's spring to mind:

- did you use new friction material for your rebuild or did you re-use the originals?
- did you use the "firmer" blue accumulator and capacity springs in your valve body?
- did you perform a complete kit install or did you only install one portion of it?
- did you replace or overhaul any other internal parts that were not mentioned here?

Until these (and possibly other) Q's are answered, I would not increase your line pressure settings beyond what I've already recommended via the provided calibration file (a TV value of 44 for the WOT 1-2 is much too high, even for a factory "soft" tranny). Failure to heed this warning could possibly aggravate whatever problems may exist and/or cause additional damage to the tranny.

Regarding the modified shift points, the following notes should be made:

- the 2-1 kickdown speed was raised to 35mph (which is, IMO, the maximum safest speed for the 2-1)
- the 1-2 WOT upshift speed was rasied to 45mph (sacrifices power in first for added power in second)
- the 2-3 WOT upshift speed was raised to 75mph (set 5mph above factory and is setup-specific)

As with every setup, YMMV and you will need to experiment with these values to see what works best for your particular car. That said, the values that I have provided to you via the calibration file are not merely arbitrary; rather, they are the result of many hundreds of hours of personal research and road testing in my own testbed ATX. Take them with a grain of salt and never forget to add a dash of common sense when tuning - start safe, make your changes slowly and ask Q's when needed.

edit: one last thing that I have been wondering about is creating a dyno gear, is it possible to use one of the 4 positions to force the tranny into 3rd gear with the TC locked so I can make pulls from 2500rpm all the way up without it downshifting or locking the TC half way through the pull.

Not only is this possible, but this is the method that I employ when dynoing my own ATX. The good news for you guys is that all of the available converter functions and scalars will be included in the next public release of the software.

 

[somedude_001]

as far as the mods I made to the tranny I installed the transgo kit as the instructions said with the exeption of removing the rear planetary and drilling it (I know probably not a great idea) if I rember corectly the white spring was the stifer one and in the instructions it said white (firm) but at any rate I folowed the instructions using the stiff springs, the tranny was rebuild and only had a few thousand miles on it prior to my purchase so I would assume it has all the stock clutches.

(a TV value of 44 for the WOT 1-2 is much too high, even for a factory "soft" tranny)

I agree with you there for sure on that because I got a firm shift with a hint of shudder in it so I backed it down to 22 and it seemed to be perfect. to tell you the truth i'm on the verg of not knowing what i'm doing with this but I would really like to learn and thats why I want to expirment with this.

so a dyno setting is entirely doable? thats great it will help me tune the low end a bit better in the future. even with the TV value at 22 on a stock tranny it shifted very good and would usually equate to about 1/4 car jump on the shift which can make or break a close race, I started by raising it by 5 at a time from the stock 7 but the difference between 7 and 12 was barly noticeable. what specificaly makes this setting so ******* a tranny? not down talking you I just don't know and want to learn. and is there any way to firm up the non WOT shifts a bit?

I have a million questions.

 

[Axianator]

as far as the mods I made to the tranny I installed the transgo kit as the instructions said with the exeption of removing the rear planetary and drilling it (I know probably not a great idea) if I rember corectly the white spring was the stifer one and in the instructions it said white (firm) but at any rate I folowed the instructions using the stiff springs, the tranny was rebuild and only had a few thousand miles on it prior to my purchase so I would assume it has all the stock clutches.

Just out of curiosity, did you drill any of the internal parts (sprocket shaft, sun gear, front planet or valve body)? IMO, the **** upgrades are more important than the valve body portion of the kit since they correct one of the biggest deficiencies inherent with the factory design - insufficient **** to the gearset. Without the **** mods and/or other factory updates, your tranny isn't likely to last as long as it would if you had installed them, especially given all the hard pulls that you make.

I agree with you there for sure on that because I got a firm shift with a hint of shudder in it so I backed it down to 22 and it seemed to be perfect. to tell you the truth i'm on the verg of not knowing what i'm doing with this but I would really like to learn and thats why I want to expirment with this.

Glad to hear you were able to work the value(s) down to a more sane level and yet achieve what sounds like a relatively firm shift. Just keep an eye on it and back it down a couple of units more if it keeps giving you any problems (eg. shuddering, etc).

so a dyno setting is entirely doable? thats great it will help me tune the low end a bit better in the future.

If you're deadset on dyno tuning your ATX before the next software release (which will contain the new converter functions and parameters), you could always make your dyno runs in second gear (since the converter does not lock in second on the Gen 2 ATX) and make your adjustments from there. Just make sure that the dyno operator knows that you want to make your runs in second and confirm that his software has the ability to account for the different gear ratio (1.543 in second vs. the usual 1:1 in third).

even with the TV value at 22 on a stock tranny it shifted very good and would usually equate to about 1/4 car jump on the shift which can make or break a close race, I started by raising it by 5 at a time from the stock 7 but the difference between 7 and 12 was barly noticeable. what specificaly makes this setting so ******* a tranny?

The reason why the TV adder functions can be so ******* the tranny is that these functions affect line pressure during the respective shifting event. Adding too much pressure while the tranny is shifting (on top of the amount of base line pressure that the pump is already running at before, during and after the shift) can put undue stress on both the tranny internals (bands and gears in particular) and driveline components (axles, CV joints, tires, etc.), potentially leading to damage if not kept in check. This is why I always advise starting low and working your way slowly up from there so that you don't inadvertantly damage something on your maiden voyage.

and is there any way to firm up the non WOT shifts a bit?

Yep - simply modify the line pressure values at the desired TPS voltage point using the same TV adder functions outlined previously to achieve the desired firmness for the appropriate shifting event (1-2, 2-3 or 3-4).

I have a million questions.

Fire away.

 

[somedude_001]

Just out of curiosity, did you drill any of the internal parts (sprocket shaft, sun gear, front planet or valve body)? IMO, the **** upgrades are more important than the valve body portion of the kit since they correct one of the biggest deficiencies inherent with the factory design - insufficient **** to the gearset. Without the **** mods and/or other factory updates, your tranny isn't likely to last as long as it would if you had installed them, especially given all the hard pulls that you make.

I drilled the shaft that the chain is attached to and the thing behind that with all teh yellow plastic seals on it as well as all teh valve body mods, I would have done the planetary but I wasn't sure what that screw on the bottom did that presses it into place, it looks like a set screw or possibly a adjustment so I didn't want to mess with it since I was working with no manual other than the transgo stuff which by the way didn't come with a manual like the F-body guys said

Glad to hear you were able to work the value(s) down to a more sane level and yet achieve what sounds like a relatively firm shift. Just keep an eye on it and back it down a couple of units more if it keeps giving you any problems (eg. shuddering, etc).

like I said when me and my brother were trying to tune this we didn't exactly know what we were doing but from what we could figure on the TV values the Y axis represents line pressure and the X axis represents time? anyway I am trying to figure out why the stock graph shows the values maxed out then they drop to 0 and then back upto 7 and the 7 continues all the way across, on my favorite setting I removed the part where it drops to 0 and changed it where it dropped down I made it drop down to 22 and maintain 22 all the way across. why does it drop so low on the stock setting?

If you're deadset on dyno tuning your ATX before the next software release (which will contain the new converter functions and parameters), you could always make your dyno runs in second gear (since the converter does not lock in second on the Gen 2 ATX) and make your adjustments from there. Just make sure that the dyno operator knows that you want to make your runs in second and confirm that his software has the ability to account for the different gear ratio (1.543 in second vs. the usual 1:1 in third).

I ran on a dyno last year and I made 10 more HP running in third gear than second but maby it was because of the gear ratios like oyu mentioned, the second gear pulls will not do it for me either because no matter what speed I start from i will be starting my pull above 3K because of the loose torque converter (2900 stock stall )

The reason why the TV adder functions can be so ******* the tranny is that these functions affect line pressure during the respective shifting event. Adding too much pressure while the tranny is shifting (on top of the amount of base line pressure that the pump is already running at before, during and after the shift) can put undue stress on both the tranny internals (bands and gears in particular) and driveline components (axles, CV joints, tires, etc.), potentially leading to damage if not kept in check. This is why I always advise starting low and working your way slowly up from there so that you don't inadvertantly damage something on your maiden voyage.

I have no worries about the CV breaking or the tires (very sticky) but I don't know what to expect from the other tranny internals.

Yep - simply modify the line pressure values at the desired TPS voltage point using the same TV adder functions outlined previously to achieve the desired firmness for the appropriate shifting event (1-2, 2-3 or 3-4).

i'll give it a shot tonight

 

[BlackandBlue]

If you're deadset on dyno tuning your ATX before the next software release (which will contain the new converter functions and parameters)

Adam,
When is this next software release?
Thanks,
Eric

 

[somedude_001]

Adam,
When is this next software release?
Thanks,
Eric

thats what I forgot to ask

 

[Axianator]

like I said when me and my brother were trying to tune this we didn't exactly know what we were doing but from what we could figure on the TV values the Y axis represents line pressure and the X axis represents time? anyway I am trying to figure out why the stock graph shows the values maxed out then they drop to 0 and then back upto 7 and the 7 continues all the way across, on my favorite setting I removed the part where it drops to 0 and changed it where it dropped down I made it drop down to 22 and maintain 22 all the way across. why does it drop so low on the stock setting?

Which function(s) are you referring to here? I assume you've already downloaded and installed the updated D4U1 data file (which solves the "funky" graphing problems you've been seeing) that I linked to earlier in this thread (see link below)?

http://www.shonutperformance.com/D4U1.DAT

Depending on the data file version you are running, the X-axis will either represent TPS voltage values or A/D (analog to digital) counts, the latter of which is the actual unit of measurement (UOM) that the EEC uses when calculating your relative TP. The Y-axis should be represented with the same UOM in both versions, or as a TV adder.

I ran on a dyno last year and I made 10 more HP running in third gear than second but maby it was because of the gear ratios like oyu mentioned, the second gear pulls will not do it for me either because no matter what speed I start from i will be starting my pull above 3K because of the loose torque converter (2900 stock stall )

While there's no reason not to make a run in third gear (running at that 1:1 ratio simply takes one more variable out of the equation), you do realize that you can modify the shift schedule functions to suit your dyno run needs? IOW, if you wanted to make a run in third and start at, say, 2500 RPMS, you could modify the upshift and downshift functions such that the EEC would not only hold third gear for the entire run, but it would refraing from commanding a downshift into second at any point while making the run (a very helpful dyno tool, IMO, considering the fact that the factory programing will command a downshift into second if you run up to WOT at any point below 70mph). This same technique could also be applied to other gears, should one have the need or desire to do so.

I have no worries about the CV breaking or the tires (very sticky) but I don't know what to expect from the other tranny internals.

As I said, "slow and easy" is the name of the game here.

When I get a chance, I'll try to post up the factory line pressure specs as per the factory techincal manuals. With any amount of effort, we should be able to map the TCC and pump datalogging variables within the D4U1 binary and (eventually) give everyone access to the amount of line pressure, converter slip, etc. that the EEC is both commanding and seeing. Doing this will allow you to monitor/log your line pressure settings via CalCon and enable you to see what kind of effect your changes are having on the tranny.

In the meantime, one will have to resort to a pressure gauge hooked up to the service port on top of the tranny ...

When is this next software release?

While no official ETA has been set yet, I'm hopeful that everyone will see the next software release before the holidays.