Aftermarket ICP to accomodate DIN headunit

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venom

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Allright I am doing some developing (slow pace) to see if I can make a replacement ICP that only has the EATC and a DIN sized radio hole in place of where in the stock radio is.

Questions:

1) What is the liklihood that someone is going to want to be able to undo the modiification on their car without buying a replacement ICP. What I am looking at is I can either modify some of the pieces permanently (and reduce the amount of pieces I need to get custom fabbed), or see about getting custom pieces fabricated to replace any factory pieces that need modified. This would allow someone to return their car to stock without buying anything, but would increase the cost of the kit in the first place. From a cost standpoint it would probably end up costing just as much more for the additional pieces for the kit as a used replacement ICP would down the road, but it is an option. Going this route however involves less modifying on each unit and would result in a "prettier" end product but it is all behind the dash anyway so I don't know how much that matters to everyone.

2) How important do people feel that the backlighting for the "OUTSIDE", "MAX", "R-DEF". amd F-DEF" Labels on the faceplate themselves get illuminated. Lighting the buttons is a piece of cake, but since the front panel will have to be fabricated, do the the orange lighted letters beside those buttons (temp, A/C and the two Defrost symobols) need to be illuminated on the faceplate, or even there at all. Any level of those lables (lighted or not) will affect the cost of the face plate significantly I expect.

3) I asusme no one wants to loose the amber light that shows the R-Def is on, I don't believe it will be that expensive to get that incorporated as it is just a clear passthrough, the Lettering described above is a bit more involved.

4) What price would people expect this to be for a kit to DIY, or a swap, (you send me a core, I send you a modded unit type of thing).

I'm pretty sure the custom plastic fab won't be cheap but if there is enough interest I will try to work this out for everyone's benefit, I have seen how much time some people have spent putting radios in the glovebox, or in the center cosole and what not, I would think that this will simplify and pretty things up quite a bit.

Just so you know, If you have plans to install an aftermarket headunit anyway don't consider waiting to see what I come up with as it may be awhile before I even know if I am going through with this. Ideally I'd like to have a verdict on if I am going to be doing this in the next motnh; but with coaching soccer and having a car with a bad #8 cylinder in the garage amongst the hectic stuff at the office I don't know what timeline anything is going to fall onto. It might even be fall for all I know.
 

s9h9o

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Scott has some good ideas on how to get this mod done and done correctly .He has put quite abit of thought into a rather complicated project ,working out the electronical issues and making into a possible cosmetic only issue . This idea deserves a chance . venom, the lettering is a non-issue . i rather like the football without them ( all week ! )
 

venom

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This mod is doable, provided fabrication costs stay reasonable. The controller PCB's will need to be relocated as the button inputs are an array type of setup so the contoller cannot be done away with. I am beginning to wonder about possibly moving them (PCB's) farther back behind the dash possibly in a remote box even. Some whiz bang connections will be required but I think this can be done. As I said the big question is what the custom face plate will cost and probably a new plastic frame to hold everything as well.

This project is on the back burner right now as I have a roasty toasty piston out of my car and the main focus is on getting my car ready in the next month or so.
 

Tunez

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Well, the bad part is that the radio control and the heater controls are partially on the same PCBs. Meaning that you can't seperate them and would have to keep them entire PCB together as a whole unit or completely rewire the heat/ac PCB. Trace all your circuits and see what I mean. I've been down this road long ago and can tell you that you do not want to see what the costs for the dash kit with heat/ac controls integrated. Just the basic Taurus dash kit is not real cheap and it only has the printed and colored stuff on it.
 

jelloslug

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Would it not be a bit easier to just incorperate a standered EATC unit from another car and just build a trim panel to cover the aftermarket radio and the different EATC? I took a look at the wiring diagram for the 3rd gen EATC and it looks close to the "standard" Ford EATC stuff, you may need to change the BCM also but thats no biggie. I would love to work on one but there is no one around me that I could test it on.
 

SHO Squall

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Jello, an aftermarket faceplate with non-computer controls already exists for the Taurus. They look VERY cheesy, from the pics I've seen on the web. Not sure how much re-wiring would need to be done to get the analog dial controls to play nice with the Electronic climate controls. Either way, unless you REALLY REALLY want to have an aftermarket head unit (the stock is pretty good with upgraded speakers), and don't want to mount it somewhere else, I'm not sure there's much of a market left for this sort of thing. I'm sure Scott can get it done if he puts his mind to it, but not sure how many other people would be willing to cough up the ca$h to make it happen on a larger scale.
 

venom

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Tunes:

this can be done, the electrical costs are not that significant actually I have an ICP in many pieces on my desk at home. Yes none of the PCB's can be done away with as the buttons are an array map type of input, but they (THE PCB's) can be moved to another location further behind the dash as long as the EATC display PCB stays in place in the bottom half of the football. The button switching and backlighting circuit are flexible prints and there is an easy way to deal with them. Just some wire and solder is all it needs electrically I say. Again the BIG question is the cost involved in molding of the front faceplate.

Will it look pretty before it is installed nope... Will it look like it belongs right there after it is installed? It is a definite possibility as long as you can get it out of your mind that a rectangular radio doesn't belong in the overly ovoid Taurus....

<small>[ February 27, 2004, 03:58 AM: Message edited by: venom ]</small>
 

Tunez

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The plastic designing is not a problem as far as costs are concerned. The problem will come into play when you try to get someone to reinstall the radio and do the required mods for the PCBs. The labor costs on a job like this for the average joe would be nuts!! The only way to remedy that would be to incorporate the PCBs into the kit in some way which means you have to buy the whole set up form Ford or recreate it. Keeping that in mind, I don't see it costing anything under $200-$250 to to sell a "pre-fab" kit to someone. If you designed a kit and let someone else to the PCB relocate, I would guess you would be in excess of $300 pretty easy and that is if a person could find a shop to do it at all.
 

jelloslug

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Jello, an aftermarket faceplate with non-computer controls already exists for the Taurus. They look VERY cheesy, from the pics I've seen on the web. Not sure how much re-wiring would need to be done to get the analog dial controls to play nice with the Electronic climate controls. Either way, unless you REALLY REALLY want to have an aftermarket head unit (the stock is pretty good with upgraded speakers), and don't want to mount it somewhere else, I'm not sure there's much of a market left for this sort of thing. I'm sure Scott can get it done if he puts his mind to it, but not sure how many other people would be willing to cough up the ca$h to make it happen on a larger scale.
I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was referring to using the electronic automatic climate unit from another Ford vehicle, like the ones in the 1st and 2nd SHOs. I have see the plate you are talking about before for the standard A/C controls, throwup sums it up.

<small>[ February 27, 2004, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: jelloslug ]</small>
 

s9h9o

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What Scott is saying is the Gen III climate controls will remain intact -usable as is - but the oem radio controls would be moved further back in the dash . being substituted with a Din sized standard head unit . (but the controls will be still there just not so they can be used or seen ) it would take a bit of electrical inginuity but it is possible . whether it is a "money maker" or just a small run of twenty to fifty - it can be done for the serious installer .I was an installer ( waaaay back in the early 80's wink for Blaupunct , originality is a concept i can grasp . You have to admit it would be original and exclusive - traits of a serious install .
 

Tunez

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Like I said before, the boards share circuits from both the OEM radio and the heater/AC controls. That would mean relocating everything back to the back and creating new controls for the front.
 

venom

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This can be done I'll say it again. I work on stuff way more complicated than this day to day at the office. I've never had to deal with custom plastic molding however so that will be the biggest challenge.

As far as price, I was hoping to fall into the 150 - 200 range for a mod kit, or maybe You send me your headunit and I'll mod it for you. Maybe even a core type of thing where I have one of each type of unit (I understand there are two differnet pieces, and I'll need to get one of the other pieces (96-97 to investigate or pull the one out of my 96) once I get this one squared away or have the plans almost nailed down on what is needed.

Picture here shows the one PCB that may have to be moved back behind the dash as it has the plug and the power supply for the controls (in the back middle). If I can find a heatsink that will mount up that isn't so tall I can rack it up off of the back of the faceplate like you see in picture two here . The button sensing PCB is flexible and can be dealt with with no real problems. The lighting circuit (all that will be needed is the orange stuff) is also flexible so dealing with that won't be so bad either... This setup will leave everything electrically as it was so all will work. Install your DIN headunit and make the necessary wiring changes for radio stuff and you are all set.

This is looking possible and doable at this point, wish I knew what timeliine I have in reality... Just figuring out what needs to go where and what extension cables are needed along with the plastic molding for a face and a structure piece that has the retaining clips to the dash are the obstacles I have to overcome.
 

Tunez

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The original design mold will probably cost you in the neighborhood of $300-400 for the plastic piece. Just the basic Taurus install kit with the wiring to the amp is usually in the neighborhood of $50-70. You will still need to buy that harness to do the install. After the initial cost of the plastic mold, someone would then have to have the mods done to the PCBs and controls.

Like you, I have done this stuff for a LONG time. I have been installing for over 15 years. Is it possible, yes most definitly. Is it worth it in the long run, most likely not when you arrive at the final price.

My .02
 

venom

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Now that everyone has spoken their peace...

I'm going to press on as time allows to dig further into this. In the meantime how about people give me some feedback on the questions I asked in my original post?

The biggest question I need answered first (which I have gotten very little feedback on) is about the backlighting on areas other than the EATC buttons like "MAX A/C", "F-DEF", and "R-DEF"and "OUTISDE TEMP". As that will affect the cost of the faceplate...

Just so you all know, never tell me that something can't be done or isn't worth doing... Just like putting a MTX in the Gen III I will do it someday, I'd love to be the first to do it, but don't know if that will be the case. Once either of our two Gen III's pukes the ATX it will become the project subframe/chassis.

As I have told others... I don't quit, that concept is nowhere in my realm of thought if it is somethign that I want to do. As far as installing car stereos, I haven't done much recently, nor do I plan on doing much in the future. These are what I work on:

North_simbay_2.jpg
 

venom

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I'm at work, I'll resize it when I get back home and can get access to the server, sorry about the size, didn't think many people would be viewing at this time of day, only us poor saps stuck at work I suppose.
 

Tunez

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Venom, no one is doubting if anyone can do it. The only trouble is, do you think that the average person would be willing to pay around $300 just to have an aftermarket radio in their car? If you did it for your self, personally, yes it would be wonderful to have. I just know that for a fact, I wouldn't pay $300 or anywhere near it to be able to have one. I think more people would be willing to sacrifice digital controls and go to analog one if that could be made to work for a lower price.
 

GaryH

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venom, i would definately be interested in a kit for the gen 3. cost isnt much of an issue at all let me know what you can do. thumb
 
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