Coilover owners - what springs, lengths, which brand do you have?

[PaulTAutoX]

OK, I'm the sole loony in Northern Cali who goes autocrossing in a SHO all the time. I don't fit in no steenkeen Miata anyway.... Running SCCA events, so by their rules in Street Touring X class, I can do pretty much any springs I want.

I've been reasonably successful after 6-7 years now, worked my way up to wins in one Chapter and a 2nd in the big one. And aren't all those Subie drivers annoyed by my Grocery Getter!

Currently have Intrax rear, put the Eibachs back in the front because I was bottoming out too much with the Intrax front. Konis of course. SHOShop 29mm rear bar and 24mm stock front. 17x8 Team Dynamics 38mm offset in rear (Thanks Josh!), Quaife. my specs on
http://www.calweb.com/~pault/BaySHO/PTSHO.htm

But I want to move to the next level, get past a few more of those guys and get a Jacket for the championship win. So the wisdom is go for the gusto and put in coilovers. I've heard from Hack and Lance about their cars; what I want to hear back is: What brand you got? ITP, GC, whatever SHOBros sells? What spring rates and lengths do you run? Any bars? I really want to hear about track day and autocross results; I understand that the ride will probably be brutal.
Paul

 

[NWGRN94MTX]

I'm going to copy this thread to the Auto - X section to see if it gets more play.

 

[drivinhard]

I've driven several SHO's at the track (open track, no AutoX) with various coilover set ups. 275 lb front springs all the way to 650's. I even ran a 30 min session at Road Atlanta with street (eibach) springs and no front bar. lol.

For high speed (non tight track) a front bar, even a little one, adds some stability. That being said, with enough front spring, you don't really need one. Bite off the corner is going to be much improved with the wheels totally uncoupled, and in addition to the weight savings of the coilovers vs the regular size springs, you get to dump the weight of the front bar and end links (and end link brackets on the strut housings) if not using it. A nice plus.

Basically, if I was you, I'd run no front bar (corner exit grip is , and fiddle around with different spring rates at the front that gives you the best balance of the roll stiffness you need (to rotate the car well on a tight auto-x course) and good steering input/front end control. For slow speed auto-x, I'd start maybe in the 250-325 lb range (I don't know how much your car weighs).

And BTW these are still available:

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=70063

 

[shomesomesho]

550/450 on the autocross SHO. Ground Control with 7" QA1 springs from summitracing.

450/350 on my street SHO. Ground Control with 7" Eibach springs that came with the GC kit. Definitely tolerable on the street. I also occasionally autocross this car and it does remarkably well (16th in a field of 100 last meet). (My dedicated autocross car is down right now, tranny issues and what not..)

I think the Eibach springs are much better quality than the QA1's that are about $20 cheaper per spring. For a given rate & length, the QA1's use thicker coils and require more coils, and are therefore heavier. Unfortunately the QA1's seem to have settled about 1/4" and become a little softer with time, and occasionally the front 550's will bottom out whereas they never used to when they were new. I'm sure I will go back to Eibachs on the dedicated autocross SHO at some point, probably 500/400.

 

[Shoaz]

500/350, 8"/10" front/rear, Hypercoils, IIRC.

Bars are 20.5, 23mm

A corner worker recently sent this pic, which is a pretty fast corner but the car is rolling more than I thought it was. This explains some of the excess tire inside edge wear. Gonna need either bigger bars or more spring.



If you have a Quaife you can use the springs/bars pretty much as needed for handling. This suspension used to be on my silver car which had an open diff and which I ran with no front bar. That really helped the front traction on corner exit...very seldom had wheelspin on corner exit in that car.

 

[PaulTAutoX]

I've driven several SHO's at the track (open track, no AutoX) with various coilover set ups. 275 lb front springs all the way to 650's. I even ran a 30 min session at Road Atlanta with street (eibach) springs and no front bar. lol.

For high speed (non tight track) a front bar, even a little one, adds some stability. That being said, with enough front spring, you don't really need one. Bite off the corner is going to be much improved with the wheels totally uncoupled, and in addition to the weight savings of the coilovers vs the regular size springs, you get to dump the weight of the front bar and end links (and end link brackets on the strut housings) if not using it. A nice plus.

Basically, if I was you, I'd run no front bar (corner exit grip is , and fiddle around with different spring rates at the front that gives you the best balance of the roll stiffness you need (to rotate the car well on a tight auto-x course) and good steering input/front end control. For slow speed auto-x, I'd start maybe in the 250-325 lb range (I don't know how much your car weighs).

And BTW these are still available:

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=70063

Thanks for the feedback! My car is to Street Touring X so you can't do much weight reduction. Last year it was 3340 pounds with 3/8 tank of gas, spare out, ready to run.
Heck, I've done track days in my car when it was bone stock; just have to watch the brakes and not do more than one lap hangin' them out in a row. But trying to figure out what springs & lengths has me baffled.
I will seriously consider your set, it certainly looks impressive! Not cheap.

Paul

 

[PaulTAutoX]

500/350, 8"/10" front/rear, Hypercoils, IIRC.

Bars are 20.5, 23mm

A corner worker recently sent this pic, which is a pretty fast corner but the car is rolling more than I thought it was. This explains some of the excess tire inside edge wear. Gonna need either bigger bars or more spring.

If you have a Quaife you can use the springs/bars pretty much as needed for handling. This suspension used to be on my silver car which had an open diff and which I ran with no front bar. That really helped the front traction on corner exit...very seldom had wheelspin on corner exit in that car.

I ran an event last year on a concrete surface, a National Tour event that had a very fast course, much of it 40-60 MPH in second where you're into the secondaries And I had a co-driver. When we finished we had a small strip of melted rubber around the inside edges of the fronts, could have been my rubber or other that I picked up. The Quaife just encourages you to keep the foot in it as you unwind the wheel, so I know there was some tirespin happening there but the power gets to the ground through the outside tire...
With the setup you describe I am really surprised at the apparent amount of body roll in that picture though. Some could be perspective, but still seems like a lot. Paul

 

[Toolman]

I've driven several SHO's at the track (open track, no AutoX) with various coilover set ups. 275 lb front springs all the way to 650's. I even ran a 30 min session at Road Atlanta with street (eibach) springs and no front bar. lol.

And BTW these are still available:

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=70063

The ones you have for sale, is it 275 FRONT or rear? You list them 275/425, and most people list the front first. Just wanted to make sure.

 

[Shoaz]

With the setup you describe I am really surprised at the apparent amount of body roll in that picture though. Some could be perspective, but still seems like a lot.

That's probably a 70mph corner and I'm on race tires very close to the traction limit there, so there's quite a bit of lateral force. The cage raises the cg, so it's tough to keep it from rolling more than a street car.

Nevertheless, it does appear to be rolling more than I thought it was. I have pics from other people on different corners, and there doesn't seem to be as much roll.

Ah, well...back to the suspension tweaking...

 

[SinisterSHO]

What would you need to do to fix that? larger bars or stiffer springs? Also, what are you running for your camber on the front?

 

[Shoaz]

More springs would be the preferred method, I think, but I don't want to revalve the shocks. So bars can do it, too.

Front camber is about -3, rear is about -2.75.