What's wrong with Penzoil?

[Deaks2]

Hi,

I have been using Penzoil since summer of '02 in my SHO and have nor had any problems. What's with the anti-Penzoil lobby here?

 

[shojuan]

It's crap.

 

[93EmeraldMTX]

shojuan:
It's crap.

someone will show a picture. you wont be happy
EDIT:directed at topic starter

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: 93EmeraldMTX ]</small>

 

[projectSHO89]

Some users here have taken upon themselves to blame everything wrong with oils on Pennzoil.

No empirical data, no scientific evaluations, no looking for other reasons for the "symptoms" supposedly attributed to PZ/QS, just anecdotal "evidence".

You'd think you'd get more from individuals who are trained in scientific and technical disciplines.

/Rant mode off...

Steve "Here we go again with the Pennzoil/Quacker State bashing" W...

 

[Ishodu]

I think there is alot of wax in the oil. Causing it to get burt on to the engine and also gum things up. I could be wrong.

 

[projectSHO89]

The "wax" or "parafin" myth in Pennzoil/Quaker State was debunked decades ago.

Steve

 

[Tommy's SHO]

This is an interesting forum. Check it out.
BOBSTHEOILGUY

 

[shojuan]

projectSHO89:
Some users here have taken upon themselves to blame everything wrong with oils on Pennzoil.

No empirical data, no scientific evaluations, no looking for other reasons for the "symptoms" supposedly attributed to PZ/QS, just anecdotal "evidence".

Steve, you're one of the straightest shooters on this board! thumbs_u I think yours is the input I'd miss the most if it were to disappear from shoforum.

That being said since cars are rather expensive pieces of personal property, none of us are set up to do a proper scientific study. ****, even if an auto manufacturer were going to do a study it would be with a very small sample size. Proper science just isn't practical here. In it's absence there is nothing wrong with basing decisions off of good anecdotal experience ("evidence" hehe). Hehe, I'm not telling you anything new when I say that there's value in a thought collective like the one we've got here. thumbs_u

Betcha don't use Pennzoil in your SHO!

 

[Rob94]

Oh Jesus Christ, make it stop!!! If Penzoil was as bad as most claim, they'd be out of business cause of lawsuits. My feeling is oil is oil. Only difference being the viscosity. I've always thrown in whatever is CHEAPEST , and after 170,000 miles in my 94, absolutely no problems. That's scientific enough for me.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Rob94:
Oh Jesus Christ, make it stop!!! If Penzoil was as bad as most claim, they'd be out of business cause of lawsuits. My feeling is oil is oil. Only difference being the viscosity. I've always thrown in whatever is CHEAPEST , and after 170,000 miles in my 94, absolutely no problems. That's scientific enough for me.

Ditto.

Same goes for the anti-Mobil 1 people. Pictures don't mean anything to me. I'd guess that less than 5% of the current SHOforum members are the original owners of their cars. As such, you don't know the maintenance history behind them so you can't just blame a picture of a dirty head on the brand of oil used.

I personally use Amsoil. Just my thing. 153,000 miles, stock compression, burns no oil. I've used GTX and once Walmart brand. Use what you use, just replace it every 3000 miles.

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Mikeys_Taurus ]</small>

 

[X-15 SHO]

Just look at the name/brand and it says it all "pins oil to your heads" will this help.

The reason for no lawsuits and what not is that the fact the oil is good for older motors, but not with the newer styles these days like our YAMAHA motor an some more import DOHC motors. Just my theory. Those are for the V8 guys and their big motors from the anchient error and still can't get away from those old motors that everyone has already built up at least once in their life. They can't get out of the V8's like some people can't get out of the 60's thumbs_u and the same about "Pins oil". wink

 

[shojuan]

Rob94:
Oh Jesus Christ, make it stop!!! If Penzoil was as bad as most claim, they'd be out of business cause of lawsuits.

Cars are unique. People don't sue when they break. Especially when they are old (anything close to 100,000 miles being considered old). Car breaks down and the local repair shop screws you over, do you sue? Very few Americans do.

 

[projectSHO89]

Betcha don't use Pennzoil in your SHO!

I use whatever oil is on sale at O'Reilly's, AutoZone, or Wal-mart, etc that is API Spec "SL" and is 5W30. Coastal, Exxon-Super Flow, PZ, Havoline, private label, whatever...

It gets changed about every 3K miles in all of my vehicles (currently 4) along with a filter. I'm not a brand snob on either regard. I also don't waste money on higher octane gas unless it's needed.

My 93 Explorer made it to 192K miles using this regimen and only used 1/2 qt oil in 3K miles at the time I sold it. Had it not been for a toasted overdrive in the transmission, I would still be driving the Exploder. Before that, I drove a 90 Tempo to 196K miles before its tranny went south. Same strategy on the engine oil. (Maybe I need a strategy on transmissions....). This 89 SHO has 210K miles on it, uses a quart every 1K (has since I got it at 189K). Never had an oil related failure on any of my vehicles yet.

I just hate seeing rumors and crap without any factual DATA to back them up. I have no interest in Shell Oil, Royal Dutch, Pennzoil, Quaker State, or any other oil company. I don't personally care who makes the "best" oil, all I care about is who makes one that is "good enough at a good price". Sweeping generalizations, unfounded suppositions, and other "voodoo" research should be identified as such.

Somewhere back in 9th grade Science class they us taught about the "scietific method". Maybe it's time to refresh memories.

As previously referred to, go visit www.bobistheoilguy.com You will find a wealth of information about the technical aspects of oil by individuals who are knowledgeable about oil, how it is made, used, tested, etc. Recommended reading for anyone interested in straight information...

Steve

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

there may be nothing wrong with penzoil, but after seeing pics of sdpatt's engine in the fall, ive used nothing but castrol. in all reality i dont think any oils are *inherently* different aside from the additives or lack there of (except for the difference in location the crude was taken from). im pretty sure its like gasoline. gas all comes from the same refineries. (if you live in the northeast like me its from the TOSCO refinery in new jersey that you see in the beginning of every episode of the sopranos). i know thats true because ive been in the refinery and they told us that point blank. the only difference in gas is the additives put in it by the companies that own the stations. so im willing to bet oils are the same type of idea, just different additives or dilutions. but in the end its your money isnt it? so do what you gotta do i say.

 

[Modemagic]

As shown in this picture... I prefer mixing some water and anti-freeze with my oil... thumbs_u

Sad isn't it? <smirk>

EDIT: See my recent post for details...

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Modemagic ]</small>

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

modemagic, that sucks, im sorry about that. you in the process of fixing that or what?

 

[KentuckySHOoff]

So should I change? But isn't it bad to change oil if that is all that has been in the motor? I never used pennzoil until my motor was rebuilt and the guy who did it put Pen in it with out asking my prefrence. squint

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

no, you should be able to change without consequence. i think that only really applies to synthetics. if you feel like changing then change, but if you havent had problems and your confident then stick with pen. i think you should use the search and find the pics of sdpatt's engine though, he only used castrol since day one. see how clean it is and youll be impressed i think. but changing wont hurt it.

 

[sdpatt]

No opinions, just facts. You make the call.

My engine at 269,000 miles on Castrol GTX and only Castrol GTX from the first oil change. Change intervals 3,000 miles.

A closeup of the cam lobes on my engine at 269,000 miles. See any wear?

Cam lobe wear on a 60,000 mile SHO using only Mobil 1 after the factory oil. But the valve train was clean. Change intervals 3,000 miles.

An engine I serviced for a guy who bought it from an owner who bragged of using only Pennzoil for 120,000 miles. Change intervals unknown.

 

[AutoSHO]

I do not have or claim to have any factual reference here. I am just stating my opinion.

For a year I worked as a small engine repair man (mainly air cooled). We had several crews who we did business with. One crew refused to run anything but pennzoil. The rest told us they thought whatever we used was best (Shell, typically, or Mobil dino). I got the oppurtunity to tear down a few of the motors. Two of the ones using our oil, and two of the pennzoil motors. It is worth noting that the 2 motors using our oil had about 50% more time on them than the Pennzoil motors. Upon opening the two using our oil, I found a medium brownish tint in one. The other was seized from overheating (air fan had gotten completely filled with clippings) and the oil was charcoal. The motor in better shape (not seized) did not have any oil buildup in it at all. very clean. It had been used a long time, and was down on power from losing compression, valves, etc.

The pennzoil motors both quit while they were being run. Seized up pretty bad. Upon opening them up, we found the cooling fans to be relativey clean and free of debris. Cracked the case, and both were stained the bright red color associated with pennzoil. There was some buildup, but nothing major, I thought.

It is worth noting that all the machines here were of a similar make and model, and the motors are practically identical.

Upon further disassembly, I found the oil slingers to be stuck, which had caused the governors to malfunction on both motors, and contributed to their failures. I also found the hole for oiling the rod bearing to be completely blocked by varnish.

Upon showing this to the guy faithful to pennzoil, we persuaded him to switch to different oil in his machines. He commented later on quieter and cooler operation.

So, that is why I will never run Pennzoil. I do not like the high-temp attributes it takes on while breaking down. I also feel that its threshold temperature before it begins to break down is too low. But, like I said, this is all opinion.