Turbo Failure / Upgrade

[kryptto]

So I purchased the car with the tune that ran for about 1.5 years before this happened. The previous owner rebuilt them with the CR Performance billet wheel rebuild kit approximately 2 months before I bought it. Not sure if he did something wrong or if they just didn't last, but to answer your question, no, the new rebuilt/upgraded turbo's have never produced boost since installation. I contacted the tuner from Unleashed and gave him the serial numbers, strategies, etc and told him what I was doing. He assured me the tune I currently had would be suffice unless I started adding fuel pump upgrades, in which I would need a new tune for.

Very odd situation indeed. I mean, I understand how engines and turbos work very well, this should've been a simple fix or find, but here we are..

You might of answered your questions around it - however CR should of tested them.

The previous owner rebuilt them with the CR Performance billet wheel rebuild kit approximately 2 months before I bought it.

 

[usmc363]

Cr Performance has been very responsive in trying to help with this issue but this is their response. They have no way to bench test them right now.

Hello Shawn,

We will inspect them, pull the housings to look for something obvious and confirm the actuators are functioning, if it makes sense we will do a full tear down etc.
But if you did not generate boost with the wastegates basically locked shut in the recommended testing, and no visible damage to the turbo set / they rotate freely. it's not turbo related.
Nonetheless we can certainly take a look at them for you.
We will confirm everything is to specifications matching the 100s of the same part number built and sold before. You are the first customer to ever have a no boost situation to send a set back. The very few other similar concerns in the past years all found a hidden boost leak like a split Cold Air Charge Boot or obvious ingested debris.

Turbo dynos are well over 100k, we actually have one picked out, and as soon as we have our new shop location we will have it on order and installed. My apologies we just do not have space currently.
But we can easily inspect the set to confirm everything is in functioning order. We have built thousands of turbochargers across all the ecoboost platforms and built to industry standards with our balancing equipment etc.

Let me know if and when you send your set so we can look out for it.

 

[yaycandy]

Cr Performance has been very responsive in trying to help with this issue but this is their response. They have no way to bench test them right now.

Leafblower the turbo to make it a leaf…sucker and leaf pusher?

 

[usmc363]

Leafblower the turbo to make it a leaf…sucker and leaf pusher?

I mean, why not. I'll let you know.

 

[usmc363]

Well, I expected some degree of restriction since the shaft isn't being oiled, but the leaf blower test had less than half of the pressure of air coming out of the turbo while spinning. I would assume this thing would have spun up and put some good air out. IDK.

 

[BradM]

I don't believe that there is a one-to-one efficiency between the air going into the turbine and the air coming out of the compressor (if that's what you're suggesting).

 

[yaycandy]

Well, I expected some degree of restriction since the shaft isn't being oiled, but the leaf blower test had less than half of the pressure of air coming out of the turbo while spinning. I would assume this thing would have spun up and put some good air out. IDK.

Well. I was mostly just playing around. I dont think a leaf blower could give good boost. Its not the flow, its the pulse and volume. Exhaust is pretty explosive pulses with actual volume. Where air is just air. Cars tuned to e30 and higher spool the turbos quicker.
Ethanol fuel has a faster ignition time and flame propagation when compared to gasoline. This leads to higher cylinder pressure and larger more powerful pulses to spool turbo. More exhaust gas volume, more spin faster quicker

 

[BradM]

@usmc363 While you have your leaf blower out and turbos off, shove it up the exhaust pipes. Maybe they have a restriction even though they're straight-piped? Those 10mm sockets had to go somewhere

 

[76FoMoCo]

Long shot plugged cats?

 

[usmc363]

Long shot plugged cats?

No cats on the car at all, no mufflers either, just two resonators.

 

[usmc363]

I don't believe that there is a one-to-one efficiency between the air going into the turbine and the air coming out of the compressor (if that's what you're suggesting).

There won't be, but I wanted to see how freely they spun as well, in which the rear turbo spun faster and smoother than the front. Well, they are out and will be going back to Canada this week. Fingers crossed they find something wrong with them.

 

[mrhighcaliber]

Long shot plugged cats?

I was going to say this. I've diagnosed a few shots/ mks where even that third cat under the tunnel was clogged. Originally it was just the left or right bank card.



I reset all the engine codes and left the downpipes off. Open turbines.

Brake boosted it and it made boost.

To the OP - usmc

Do you have an after market exhaust or an x pipe? I'm Just trying to verify that the 3rd cat is gone. Its directly below the shifter where the flex pipes from engine downpipes meet the exhaust. Looks like and H pipe with a sumo wrestler belly.

 

[usmc363]

I was going to say this. I've diagnosed a few shots/ mks where even that third cat under the tunnel was clogged. Originally it was just the left or right bank card.



I reset all the engine codes and left the downpipes off. Open turbines.

Brake boosted it and it made boost.

To the OP - usmc

Do you have an after market exhaust or an x pipe? I'm Just trying to verify that the 3rd cat is gone. Its directly below the shifter where the flex pipes from engine downpipes meet the exhaust. Looks like and H pipe with a sumo wrestler belly.

Yesr,
All aftermarket, bought with X-pipe with magnaflow mufflers. I removed the cats from the downpipes and the magnaflow mufflers a while back. There are two resonators still on each side (cylinder shaped). Could they be clogged, I don't know, but I'll take the entire exhaust off this weekend and inspect. I need to clean out the residual oil from the turbo blow up anyway..

 

[Boochy47]

What’s the down time in this process what if there gh turbos and they need repair are they speedy at all about servicing and shipping are they repairable if they fail usually

 

[Ta2dResqr]

What’s the down time in this process what if there gh turbos and they need repair are they speedy at all about servicing and shipping are they repairable if they fail usually

Only speaking from a rebuilding standpoint, TurboBay was right about 60 days with shipping in both directions. Not sure how other companies are currently.

 

[usmc363]

I was going to say this. I've diagnosed a few shots/ mks where even that third cat under the tunnel was clogged. Originally it was just the left or right bank card.



I reset all the engine codes and left the downpipes off. Open turbines.

Brake boosted it and it made boost.

To the OP - usmc

Do you have an after market exhaust or an x pipe? I'm Just trying to verify that the 3rd cat is gone. Its directly below the shifter where the flex pipes from engine downpipes meet the exhaust. Looks like and H pipe with a sumo wrestler belly.

Took exhaust out, no clogs.

 

[BradM]

Dang, that was my guess. How about the intake side? Any restrictions?

 

[usmc363]

Dang, that was my guess. How about the intake side? Any restrictions?

No sir. I'm just gonna order the hot pipes from EcoPowerParts and eliminate the plastic, even though I pressure tested it and it held 20psi before blowing the cap off I had on the other end. I just don't know.

 

[76FoMoCo]

No sir. I'm just gonna order the hot pipes from EcoPowerParts and eliminate the plastic, even though I pressure tested it and it held 20psi before blowing the cap off I had on the other end. I just don't know.

Lol did the same thing except I was using a 2.5 lb round sledgehammer in the rubber pipe as a plug

 

[usmc363]

Ok, they checked turbos, not really anything to shake a stick at. They ARE replacing cores and adjusting WG to spec and shipping out this week.
I've thrown out all plastic piping and ordered pipes from EPP. (3 weeks out).
Follow me on this for a minute. I posted a datalog in the beginning for someone to analyze, but after more and more research, I'm thinking the leak is motor side.
The datalog show the 'tip prs boost kps' max as 121kpa (17.5psi). This means the sensor PRE THROTTLE BODY was seeing 17.5psi.
The 'tip prs boost kpa dsd' showed max 172kpa (24psi). This means the PCM was commanding MAX boost or at least 24psi.
The MAP kpa was max at 102kpa (14psi) which is actually 0 psi because this is absolute pressure, not actual pressure.

SO....once the throttle body opens, the pressure going into the motor disappears. Leading me to believe what I had suspected before...intake leak..?
I'm gonna pull the upper intake and replace all gaskets. I reused the intake gaskets from when I replaced the waterpump/timing chain and I bet they are toast. This would explain why my charge pipes and intercooler all held pressure during the boost leak test. That was all PRE Throttle body.