Should I be ******? (MTX specialsts look here)

[Eric VerValin]

Ok, I have done all the maintenance on this car in the past, with the exception of my clutch. When I pulled the flywheel and clutch assembly off, looking at my rear main seal, the crank, or actually the 'thing' the flywheel bolts up to, was resting on the rear main seal. Like there was almost 1/8" gap at the top of it!?! I know that shit can't be normal. There is even some scarring on that part, wore a little ridge into it. Wish I had a better camera to show you a picture, but anyway. My main caps were loosened when I origionally opened the bottom end up looking to change out my rod bearings. Could the mains being loose make it set that much lower and rest on the rear main seal? Before I took the plate off, I tightened the #4 cap, and nothing, didnt pick it up at all.. so I dont know, is this something they messed up? Is that why my car was ticking for a 1000 miles before I spun that bearing?

**** there are peices of shop towel in the space where the clutch was.. ?!?!? are they that lazy? I don't know, it just looked real sloppy, and if the crank was 'off' at one end, that would make sence why my rod bearing spun? I noticed the tick right after I got it back, but they told me it was just the new TOB.. mind you I had the metal sleeved one, not a ceramic.

 

[ManySHOs]

Ok, I have done all the maintenance on this car in the past, with the exception of my clutch. When I pulled the flywheel and clutch assembly off, looking at my rear main seal, the crank, or actually the 'thing' the flywheel bolts up to, was resting on the rear main seal. Like there was almost 1/8" gap at the top of it!?! I know that shit can't be normal. There is even some scarring on that part, wore a little ridge into it. Wish I had a better camera to show you a picture, but anyway. My main caps were loosened when I origionally opened the bottom end up looking to change out my rod bearings. Could the mains being loose make it set that much lower and rest on the rear main seal? Before I took the plate off, I tightened the #4 cap, and nothing, didnt pick it up at all.. so I dont know, is this something they messed up? Is that why my car was ticking for a 1000 miles before I spun that bearing?

**** there are peices of shop towel in the space where the clutch was.. ?!?!? are they that lazy? I don't know, it just looked real sloppy, and if the crank was 'off' at one end, that would make sence why my rod bearing spun? I noticed the tick right after I got it back, but they told me it was just the new TOB.. mind you I had the metal sleeved one, not a ceramic.

They flywheel bolts to the crank. Post a picture.

Ian

 

[Eric VerValin]

yea i know , that part that it bolts to... the big round end, with 8 holes.. that was resting on the bottom side of the rear main seal.

I dont have a digital camera, I been taking 35mm pics, and having them converted to CD's.. lol sorry i can't get one faster.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well I stole 92SHOoff's pic, but this is what i'm talkin about..

 

[thecrew2999]

im not a expert here but i think its just the rear seal being off some i doubt the crank part where the flywheel bolts is off since the cranks are very heavy duty

 

[Racer X]

Wait, Eric, are you saying that when you went in the motor, the main caps weren't tight at all? Not the rod caps, but the main caps; the big ones.

If that's the case...

 

[Eric VerValin]

I loosened the mains after i found the rod bearings to be out of spec. But, after that the motor never turned over and the wear that was on that end of the crank had to have happened when it was still spinning, being that it wore the groove into that part of the crank . the back of the flywheel was dry so nothing got past it but it looks like it wasnt right for awhile before i ever took the bottom end apart. i wonder if maybe they installed something wrong when they put my car back together when they did the clutch. i dont know how they did it whether they dropped the sub-frame or not, but i remember having them replace the rear main seal when i had it fixed . so i know they had their hands on it. i wonder if they did something wrong and that is what lead to the premature failure of the rod bearings.

 

[pjtoledo]

If the rear main seal was mis-aligned that much there would be oil all over about 5 seconds after the engine started. There normally is a wear groove on the rear of the crank. When a new rear seal is installed it must be greased to prevent the crank from ripping it up real fast.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Yea, I noticed on the new one I have, it has grease in the center part, but It just suprised me to see the groove wore into it. And I did think it was quite strange being it was dry behind the flywheel. I remember a long time ago someone having a problem with a slipping clutch, and it was due to a leaky rear main seal. I just dont know what kind of pressure is behind some of these things. I sure am glad to be finishing up putting this beast back together tho!!!

 

[pjtoledo]

Pressurized oil is only on the bearing surfaces of the crank. The rear seal only contains the oil that is splashing around in the crankcase, it holds no pressure. Was there a lot of oil running down the oil pan in the rear? That's where most of it will go, then the wind will blow it back to the floor and exhaust pipe.

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well, there was quite a bit, nothing crazy tho. There was a lot built up just above the seal tho, more of a dirt / oil mix. It was pretty thick, around the outside edge. Taking a lot of cleaning to get mine to look like his up there..

 

[Paul]

The rear seal maybe should'nt have been fooled with in the first place if it was'nt leaking. I know the seal cover plate is difficult to remove and the gasket gets really stuck to the mating surfaces and is difficult to remove the material. I would say the seal plate is fragile and easily bent. If this occurs, it needs to be replaced. It will never seal again. You may in over your head at this point. Things are not that complicated with the bottom end. The main bearings usually are in reusable condition on a 300,000 mi motor if system oiling was ok. You better take a good look at the crank & main bores. What I see in that photo is not worthy of reassembly. Maybe you need to find another engine block. Maybe I'm not getting the full story.

 

[Paul]

Hey Eric, I am trying to help you. I see your profile under your "interests" catagory and this explains the root of your difficulties.

 

[rangerj]

There is no way there should be an 1/8 inch gap at the top of the rear crank seal. I would pul the oil pan and check the bolts for the crank bearing caps. something is not right. The carrier for the seal is mounted on guide pins and it will center the seal over the crank so the seal mounting should not be the problem. The other possibility is that the crank is bent. While this is unlikely, you can rotate the crank by hand (clockwise with a wratchet and socket on the front of the crank) and see if the "gap" rotates around the seal. Again, something is not right and needs attention.

Note that the seal has a spring around the inside of the rubber that holds the seal to the crank. The spring may be broken or displaced. This is a common problem when these seals are replaced without using the proper tools, or at least a proper tecnique. Beating them into place often dislodges the spring. Hi Perry.:wave:

 

[yamapowered]

I loosened the mains after i found the rod bearings to be out of spec. But, after that the motor never turned over and the wear that was on that end of the crank had to have happened when it was still spinning, being that it wore the groove into that part of the crank . the back of the flywheel was dry so nothing got past it but it looks like it wasnt right for awhile before i ever took the bottom end apart. i wonder if maybe they installed something wrong when they put my car back together when they did the clutch. i dont know how they did it whether they dropped the sub-frame or not, but i remember having them replace the rear main seal when i had it fixed . so i know they had their hands on it. i wonder if they did something wrong and that is what lead to the premature failure of the rod bearings.

wear groove free of charge from the use of petroleum oil, courtsey of sludge a product of 3000 mile oil change crowd. api certified oil is what causes wear in engines and kills sho yamaha engines. mechanics and dealers recomend this junk cause they need work...

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

wear groove free of charge from the use of petroleum oil, courtsey of sludge a product of 3000 mile oil change crowd. api certified oil is what causes wear in engines and kills sho yamaha engines. mechanics and dealers recomend this junk cause they need work...

zzzzz

 

[Eric VerValin]

Well that block did have 189,000 on the clock... but none of that is going into my new motor, just the oil pan. But I do plan on using synthetics after my break-in, which will be ... one start up, and get to temp, then cool down to check for leaks, then I'm going to take her out on the bypass, and beat the snot out of her for 30 miles... just hoping that no 'officer friendlys' will be out .. good thing I have a police scanner, and an all black car.. I'm planning on doing this at around 3 am to avoid such problems.

 

[Devin]

<hijack>

If the rear main seal was mis-aligned that much there would be oil all over about 5 seconds after the engine started. There normally is a wear groove on the rear of the crank. When a new rear seal is installed it must be greased to prevent the crank from ripping it up real fast.

That's no bueno. I didn't grease a thing when I put mine in. Is there a safe way to take the seal out after just installing it? The engine has not been started since but I did put the oil pan back on.

Can one get a bit of grease in there when the seal is in place?
</hijack>

 

[Eric VerValin]

Oh yea.. what kind of grease are we talking about here? I have some synthetic stuff I use in my tie rod ends. Would that work ?

 

[ManySHOs]

<hijack>



That's no bueno. I didn't grease a thing when I put mine in. Is there a safe way to take the seal out after just installing it? The engine has not been started since but I did put the oil pan back on.

Can one get a bit of grease in there when the seal is in place?
</hijack>

I didn't grease my seal but I do recall that the Ford seal came with a thin bead of white grease on it. 15K miles and I'm pretty sure I don't have a rear main seal leak.

Ian