School me on the MTX.

[StAnGbAnGeR]

Just doing some homework here before deciding which route to go.

I've heard/read about the MTX issues once you start modding an SHO. I know about the common diff pin failure. Aside from installing a Wave Trac or a Quaffe, what can be done to build up an MTX? I'm trying to decide which route to go, whether it be a high comp 3.? or do a nice 3.? boost motor for a turbo. What I do not want to do is build a stout motor that is too much for an above average MTX. I am a noob to these cars, please bear that in mind. How much torque can a fully built up MTX take? Also, what does it take to build an MTX to take abuse, can it be done? Ballpark how much it will run.

I've been so focused on the motor part, I need to gain some knowledge on the MTX. If it takes big bucks to get where I'd like to be, so be it. I just want to know some options here. Thanks to everyone in advance....:thankyou:

 

[RonPorter]

As I mentioned in the other post, contact Scott Krietemeyer (Venom on the Forum) about what it took to put a Mazda tranny in his '96 V8 SHO.

IMO, the basic SHO tranny has limitations that you can't get around, and rebuild parts are becoming scarce.

Spend a few more $$$ and Scott can tell you how "cheap" (relatively speaking, IMO) it would be to adapt another tranny.

 

[StAnGbAnGeR]

OK. I will contact him and see what he says.

 

[jayro]

The MTX will hold up to about ftlbs. After that 3rd gear starts going out. As far as beefing it up, you can put in a WaveTrac/Quaife. I know there were a number of people who would shim it some how to try and reduce shaft flex with mixed results. There have been a few attempts to do a HD Gearset group buy. I think ShoNut got some sets made a while back, but the recent ones have fell through due to the price.

 

[StAnGbAnGeR]

The MTX will hold up to about ftlbs. After that 3rd gear starts going out. As far as beefing it up, you can put in a WaveTrac/Quaife. I know there were a number of people who would shim it some how to try and reduce shaft flex with mixed results. There have been a few attempts to do a HD Gearset group buy. I think ShoNut got some sets made a while back, but the recent ones have fell through due to the price.

How many ft lbs?

 

[jayro]

How many ft lbs?

ooopps! 300 ftlbs. Although there have been failures at lower power levels they are not nearly as prevalent.

 

[SHOtime2511]

figure about 7lbs on a good tune.

 

[StAnGbAnGeR]

figure about 7lbs on a good tune.

Thanks for the input. IF you don't mind me asking, how much does your turbo sho put down HP/Torque? Are you running 7lbs of boost? I'd like to see 400hp out of my prospective setup if at all possible. My SHO won't be a track car, it will be the summer street/show warrior, but I would like to track it just for fun, nothing too serious though. I need to get a realistic feel for who's done what, and what kind of power was made. Yes, I've seen Toolman's vids of his turbo sho on youtube, inspiring yes, but can I get there remains to be seen.

 

[shomethe$$$]

Nothing can be done with any of the stock gears, I'm working on something, check out the thread below I posted some progress. The mod around 3-4k. I could easily adapt the trans I'm using to the SHO engine but its 4" wider and 2" longer, very hard to find in this chassis but then some sub frame cutting and welding would have to be done. I may consider it if I come to a dead end on my current project, which I won't.

Make sure Shonut has the wavetrac's.

 

[vortex2450]

Thanks for the input. IF you don't mind me asking, how much does your turbo sho put down HP/Torque? Are you running 7lbs of boost? I'd like to see 400hp out of my prospective setup if at all possible. My SHO won't be a track car, it will be the summer street/show warrior, but I would like to track it just for fun, nothing too serious though. I need to get a realistic feel for who's done what, and what kind of power was made. Yes, I've seen Toolman's vids of his turbo sho on youtube, inspiring yes, but can I get there remains to be seen.

It depends on how you boost your car, if you're running an I/C,etc.etc.

Basically, a turbo will putout more torque which means more wear lb for lb versus a supercharger which has a more linear tq curve. Eitherway, 400 hp equates to at least 360 lb-ft tq which means sooner or later you can say goodbye to you're tranny.

A 7lb set up usually equates to at least 300hp if not slightly more depending on how healthy the engine is.

Personally, when I boost I'm only going to run a 6lb daily tune. The biggest issue is learning how to drive a manual smoothly, it is hard 2-3 shifts that will kills third. Smooth and linear engagement under power is the biggest safe guard to prevent shredding 3rd, ohh and not launching from a dig helps too, that'll save your axles.

-Josh

 

[jayro]

You can get an idea mathmatically what kind of power you will make at a given boost level. Basically, your power output should double at 14psi. It will increase 50% at 7psi. Of course this will just give you a general guidline since there are many other variables that can effect the actual output number.

 

[StAnGbAnGeR]

These are great and very helpful posts!

 

[StAnGbAnGeR]

It depends on how you boost your car, if you're running an I/C,etc.etc.

Basically, a turbo will putout more torque which means more wear lb for lb versus a supercharger which has a more linear tq curve. Eitherway, 400 hp equates to at least 360 lb-ft tq which means sooner or later you can say goodbye to you're tranny.

A 7lb set up usually equates to at least 300hp if not slightly more depending on how healthy the engine is.

Personally, when I boost I'm only going to run a 6lb daily tune. The biggest issue is learning how to drive a manual smoothly, it is hard 2-3 shifts that will kills third. Smooth and linear engagement under power is the biggest safe guard to prevent shredding 3rd, ohh and not launching from a dig helps too, that'll save your axles.

-Josh

I completely agree with learning how to drive the car smoothly. I've never launched my SHO, even the beater 93 I had. I was always afraid of breaking an axle. The whole reason why I'm doing homework is because I've always made the mistake in the past of building something that I think will work, and finding out that it does not work shortly after. I've made this mistake with my turbo Mustangs before, plus I don't have the cash like I once did...lol! Although I know building the SHO won't be cheap, I'd like to hit the nail on the head the first time. It's not like I can ask some random Mustang guy like I used to, SHO owners are few and far between, and the forum is the only place to get solid advice, as most people don't know anything about the SHO. From what everyone is saying, I need to focus on the the transmission end first. This will need to be the starting point, no point in building an engine that will blow up a trans every time I get on it. I'm around 2yrs out on the build, but I'm going to need someone to come up with a trans that is going to last.

 

[RonPorter]

I completely agree with learning how to drive the car smoothly. I've never launched my SHO, even the beater 93 I had. I was always afraid of breaking an axle. The whole reason why I'm doing homework is because I've always made the mistake in the past of building something that I think will work, and finding out that it does not work shortly after. I've made this mistake with my turbo Mustangs before, plus I don't have the cash like I once did...lol! Although I know building the SHO won't be cheap, I'd like to hit the nail on the head the first time. It's not like I can ask some random Mustang guy like I used to, SHO owners are few and far between, and the forum is the only place to get solid advice, as most people don't know anything about the SHO. From what everyone is saying, I need to focus on the the transmission end first. This will need to be the starting point, no point in building an engine that will blow up a trans every time I get on it. I'm around 2yrs out on the build, but I'm going to need someone to come up with a trans that is going to last.

IMO, building up a SHO for serious power is a fool's game.......,

Depends what you want. If you want the uniqueness of a built SHO, fine.

If you just want a high-powered "fun" car, spend far less $$$ on something else.

 

[vortex2450]

I completely agree with learning how to drive the car smoothly. I've never launched my SHO, even the beater 93 I had. I was always afraid of breaking an axle. The whole reason why I'm doing homework is because I've always made the mistake in the past of building something that I think will work, and finding out that it does not work shortly after. I've made this mistake with my turbo Mustangs before, plus I don't have the cash like I once did...lol! Although I know building the SHO won't be cheap, I'd like to hit the nail on the head the first time. It's not like I can ask some random Mustang guy like I used to, SHO owners are few and far between, and the forum is the only place to get solid advice, as most people don't know anything about the SHO. From what everyone is saying, I need to focus on the the transmission end first. This will need to be the starting point, no point in building an engine that will blow up a trans every time I get on it. I'm around 2yrs out on the build, but I'm going to need someone to come up with a trans that is going to last.

I admire and understand your enthusiasm but understand this: All SHO's are turds, the FWD MTXIV drive-train is the weak link and will always be.

The only things you really can (reasonably) do to set up the tranny itself is either weld the dif pins or install a LSD. Then there is flywheel/clutch options as well as the option to upgrade to a SHOrt Shifter. Other than that, don't get the mindset that this trans will treat you well, it might be safe to say that a SHO tranny gets blown once a week by a member of this forum..

If you want to have fun and do it right make sure all the maintenance is done first.

Then focus on suspension and brake upgrades. Build a solid platform all around so that when you boost you're not dealing with these things then; plus, a SHO is a lot of fun once you put some time into handling and brakes.


-Josh

PS: Be ready for headaches and the feeling that you'r be ing f****d becauase that's what dumping $ into a SHO is going to feel like. But in the end, you've have one of the sweetest engines ever built and secondaries that put "vtec" to shame.

 

[jayro]

As far as the trans with a boosted sho goes.....with reasonable boost levels
(6-9psi) and the correct driving style a trans can last fairly well. Fairly well means that it wont be breaking every 6 months. However, you are putting WAY more power through it than it was ever designed for. This means that 99% of the time it is going to fail at some point, so have a back up or two ready for when it happens.

And as stated, I would contact ShoNut to see if he has any WaveTracs left. It was a group buy, but I believe he got extras too.

 

[StAnGbAnGeR]

I admire and understand your enthusiasm but understand this: All SHO's are turds, the FWD MTXIV drive-train is the weak link and will always be.

The only things you really can (reasonably) do to set up the tranny itself is either weld the dif pins or install a LSD. Then there is flywheel/clutch options as well as the option to upgrade to a SHOrt Shifter. Other than that, don't get the mindset that this trans will treat you well, it might be safe to say that a SHO tranny gets blown once a week by a member of this forum..

If you want to have fun and do it right make sure all the maintenance is done first.

Then focus on suspension and brake upgrades. Build a solid platform all around so that when you boost you're not dealing with these things then; plus, a SHO is a lot of fun once you put some time into handling and brakes.


-Josh

PS: Be ready for headaches and the feeling that you'r be ing f****d becauase that's what dumping $ into a SHO is going to feel like. But in the end, you've have one of the sweetest engines ever built and secondaries that put "vtec" to shame.

That is what this is all about. I know its going to be a headache, but I'm willing to deal. It would be worth it in the long run for me to look into a custom trans setup. I'm going to have to learn the limits with whatever setup I decide to go with. My goal isn't to break things, although I've realized that the trans will be the weakest link. The Yamaha engine is facinating to say the least. I've done the import game, its not for me. I've gone the Mustang route several times over, the SHO by far has been the most fun. Ron Porter mentioned that building a SHO is a fools game, but I like to be different. Screw VTEC! When the time gets closer, I'm going to contact some people mentioned in this thred to see about going the custom trans route. It's going to be $$$, but it will make me happy, and that is the point of the build. The feeling of "getting f****d is all part of the game, especially when you start doing things with cars that they weren't meant to do. I just want a bad **** SHO, for me. Dare to be different (other than the SHO family). I cannot thank everyone enough who has contributed to this thred. If anyone has any further suggestions, put them out there.

 

[kevinspann]

Make it RWD.

 

[jayro]

Make it RWD.

I wish the RWD conversion was still around. I would love to do this. Keep the Taurus skin except be able to use a real trans and be able to have traction when you launch.

Unfortuantly this project is a little beyond my current ability....maybe in the future.

Wonder what it would cost me to build one with my lazy tool (the checkbook)?

 

[vortex2450]

That is what this is all about. I know its going to be a headache, but I'm willing to deal. It would be worth it in the long run for me to look into a custom trans setup. I'm going to have to learn the limits with whatever setup I decide to go with. My goal isn't to break things, although I've realized that the trans will be the weakest link. The Yamaha engine is facinating to say the least. I've done the import game, its not for me. I've gone the Mustang route several times over, the SHO by far has been the most fun. Ron Porter mentioned that building a SHO is a fools game, but I like to be different. Screw VTEC! When the time gets closer, I'm going to contact some people mentioned in this thred to see about going the custom trans route. It's going to be $$$, but it will make me happy, and that is the point of the build. The feeling of "getting f****d is all part of the game, especially when you start doing things with cars that they weren't meant to do. I just want a bad **** SHO, for me. Dare to be different (other than the SHO family). I cannot thank everyone enough who has contributed to this thred. If anyone has any further suggestions, put them out there.

I you are really willing to put cash and time into a SHO and you want it to be bullet proof go RWD like kevinspann said.

I would go with a Tremec T-56, there is a company that makes one with upgraded internal meant for high revving applications.

Off the top of my head here's the work involved.

-Custom motor mounts
-Raising and reversing (180 degree rotation) the intake
-custom adapter plate
-rewiring the wiring harness
-custom exhaust
-custom clutch set up
-custom tranny mounts
-cutting the center tunnel out and enlarging it.
-either a custom fuel tank or a fuel cell
-completely customizing the rear end suspension


That list could go on BUT if you have the time and space and proper tools to do moderate metal fabrication/weld it is all a realizable dream.

As you can see I've also considered a RWD set up. There are a lot of unknowns at this point. You'll probably have to cut out a chunk of the firewall too to create space to properly mount a transmission.

That is the only way to truly "bullet proof" the drive-train in a SHO.

if you wanted to stay fwd there are a couple HD gearsets floating around as well as options for racing axles too.


-josh