Repairing the weak "Y" on coolant line (between heads)

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

Hi folks,

I started my repairs on the engine and unbolted all the upper intake. It seems that a hose on the small Y on coolant hose broke last summer. I'm now at the fuel rail. As I never dug so deep in the engine before, I have some questions...

1- There are some trick(s) to disconnect the electrical plugs of injectors without breaking them (as they are old plastic exposed to heat...) and to pop off injectors from their place ?

2- In the same time, could it be usefull to replace o-rings on injectors (16) or they are reliable the entire life of the car ? (I have no problems with them but i have new spares in hands.)

3- I remarked that all secondaries, even if they are wired open at max opening, seems to block/brake the air flow by 1/3 of their opening... As I have to retreive the lower intake, I'm wondering if it's a good thing to retreive meanwhile all the butterflies from the rods of the IMRC to help the engine breathe a little more (at first glance, like 1/6 of total air entering). Or it's usefull to have something on the way to brake air and have 2 sources of air with different speed to have a better air-fuel mix ?

Thanks for your input,

 

[gamefanatic]

1.) Nope. These things are brittle city. The good thing is so long as the rubber insulator is still on the connector, they pretty much stay in place. Plus with the intake on, they haven't much wiggle room.

2.) I only replace them if they are worn, brittle or broke. So long as fuel isn't coming out, there isn't a need to replace them. You could potentially put a small amount of o-ring grease on them. I haven't had to one either of my SHO's yet.

3.) I'm not following what you are saying here. Do you have a picture? Butterflies should open between 80-90°. If they aren't opening that far something may be restricting their opening.

Hope you replace the Y coolant line with something metal. Also recommend replacing the head coolant lines to the Y adapter with thicker silicone lines. I ended up using Vibrant heater hose. Its a tight fit, but I don't think they are going to break ever again.

Vibrant Performance 20435 Heater Hose, Black https://a.co/d/1RamcBC

Vibrant Performance 20445 5/8in ID x 5 ft Longsilicone Heater Hose, 1 Pack, Black https://a.co/d/5Epoqh1

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

Hi Gamefanatic,

Yes, I will put a photo of the butterfiles. It's intriguing. Its more like a 65-70 degrees fully opened (they are all the same).

For the Y, yes, I bought one in brass. No more stress. But on Amazon, some imitations are sold, beware.

Thanks for the link on hose. I already found needed parts. Here it is (hose is an Amazon finds too) :

https://www.amazon.com/Joyway-Shaped-Union-Fitting-Intersection/dp/B07C6K8Y1Y?psc=1&pd_rd_w=k5nyo&pf_rd_p=87a48bff-0d65-465c-9848-dfd8668d09df&pf_rd_r=T2G5ZV5HE7RYVT7VKGQ1&pd_rd_wg=Ob3a9&pd_rd_r=211c28c9-807e-4c47-aed2-a40adae69482&content-id=amzn1.sym.87a48bff-0d65-465c-9848-dfd8668d09df&ref_=sspa_dk_rhf_yoy_pt_sub_8&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExN0tRNFFMNlo0Skg5JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODA3MzkxR0FTVkRUWFFKQTFRJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5Njg2MTEyWVdHSzNVWUtCT0pTJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfcmhmX3lveSZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09V88K4NG/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B09V88K4NGp13NParams&s=automotive&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM&th=1

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

Wow, it's an Eric seal of approuval right there !?

I mistaken about the hose, it's this one. Seems really though.

https://www.amazon.ca/Fuel-Stainless-Steel-Nylon-Braided/dp/B09ZKWCT4S?pd_rd_w=mzCnd&content-id=amzn1.sym.af74bb2c-0471-4d18-a5da-d9b17b5bd7dd&pf_rd_p=af74bb2c-0471-4d18-a5da-d9b17b5bd7dd&pf_rd_r=3ENXF34M0R4YSP3JQFYQ&pd_rd_wg=JQluX&pd_rd_r=4090bb40-105b-4264-8361-c08199f4f820&pd_rd_i=B09ZKWCT4S&ref_=pd_bap_d_grid_rp_0_1_ec_i&th=1

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

Someone knows if its normal that I have no fuel pressure if the car had not run since 4 days ?

Here is one of the butterfly (not fully opens).

 

[gamefanatic]

Fuel pressure will typically go down after you turn off the car as this is a return system.

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

Ha, thanks you, I tought about that but I wasn't sure that is a normal behavior.

For the secondaries, as you can see, it's not fully opened. I think I will unbolt all the plates to gain a better air flow there.

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

I finished to unbolt the intake. It was in fact one of the hoses going to the Y. Someone knows what is the size of these hoses I bought 3/8 but its not good, even all the factory clamps are loose on this size, could it be 9/16 ?

 

[98SF19]

3- I remarked that all secondaries, even if they are wired open at max opening, seems to block/brake the air flow by 1/3 of their opening... As I have to retreive the lower intake, I'm wondering if it's a good thing to retreive meanwhile all the butterflies from the rods of the IMRC to help the engine breathe a little more (at first glance, like 1/6 of total air entering). Or it's usefull to have something on the way to brake air and have 2 sources of air with different speed to have a better air-fuel mix ?

Hello old timer! Been a while, how have you been? As for the secondary plates and rods . . . I yanked mine out years ago. The system bogs down a bit at low end with secondaries wired open as it seems designed to utilize less airflow at low end, but if you're going to wire them open (as we all must once the crap Delrin gear cracks), I thought, just get the whole assembly out of the way for WOT high end benefit! So, it does require removing lower intake. I have pics, but just a warning - the major issue in 2020 that led me to take vehicle to Doug was that one of the JB weld plugs I had used to close the rod bores (only at exterior bores) popped loose and somehow made it's way upstream to surge tank (thank God it didn't go into the cans!). Doug sent me a picture and it looked like a bullet! He explained it, but I think he redid the JB weld plugs using a slightly oversized amount, and by applying pressure on each side, they were flared on each end and could not move anywhere once cured. I'm now wondering if there is anything detrimental to NOT having plugged the interior bores . . . . potential for damage to intake valves?

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

Hi Ryan,

Long time no see !!

Not sure what is your concern here, You're wondering if something physical can run into your engine or you wondering if letting the free hole between the secondaries free will do damage to the engine ?

On my side for the secondaries, I just unbolted the plates not the rod, too much troubles to fit someting in the holes left. Retiring the plates will already be better than wired open. She's old now and she doesn't go at WOT often. Last time I tryed something like this, one of the coolant hoses (Y) broke... (And now any small engine turboed can pass me easyly. Will they still on the road at 140k is another question...)

But for the IMRC delete debate, my observation is at my last house I have a driveway with a small hill (like 10 decrees) with the IMRC working, the car was able to climb it almost without touching the gas. When i deleted the IMRC, the car wasn't able to climb it anymore but during the following weeks (2-3), I remarked that the car was able to climb it again as he still have his IMRC... It seems that the ECM was able to relearn a good curve to acheve a similar stock result at very low rpms (650-800).

My concern about IMRC itsn't just better air flow, the "close chamber" created when the secondary is close can accumulate a great quantity of carbon because its feeded by the combustion chamber but not with fresh air as the intake valve open even if the IMRC is closed. Having a constant air flow there entering the in combustion chamber seems a good logical way to evitate dirt accumulation there. On a long term, it could be better at least for the valve.

 

[HOTREDSTANG]

HEY YALL I put this up last year. This is what I did for the PCV. It's not pretty but it work's. And no body makes the STUPID hose. Just like the Y (no pics of that) used a brass T and spent a little time staring at hoses at the part's store. Benefits of being a Mechanic for 40years.

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

Not a bad idea. Do you have a part number for that or you made it ?

Worth to check this hose as I'm already there...

 

[HOTREDSTANG]

I made it out of an old A/C line I had lying around and used some PCV hose to attach it to the separation box and flared the other end and found a piece of hose to fit the valve and pipe. And it sits exactly where the original does. Had to do something and that's just how my AD/HD brain works

 

[98SF19]

HEY YALL I put this up last year. This is what I did for the PCV. It's not pretty but it work's. And no body makes the STUPID hose. Just like the Y (no pics of that) used a brass T and spent a little time staring at hoses at the part's store. Benefits of being a Mechanic for 40years.

My take on the PCV system (and many others) is that it's just too short to really condense a sufficient amount of moisture out of hot gas . . . also, putting all that condensation just upstream of the surge tank is screwy . . . I ran a Nimzified catch can (aka a "con" can) attached in front of driver's side front tire, with a single line down to the can and single line up to the pcv valve, THEN into surge tank. I used an el cheapo catch can off ebay, cut it in half, epoxy'd in a small aluminum angle bar (intake channel), stuffed the rest of can full of iron wool (additional cooling/condensing), rtv'd all inside seams, sealed the can back up, and installed. In the first couple of weeks, I got about an ounce and a half of brown, oily/gassy smelling fluid. I can put it back up on dropbox if you wanna see the video . . . I may consider rebuilding the can since it was cheap and the iron wool is no doubt a rusty mess by now.

 

[98SF19]

You're wondering if something physical can run into your engine or you wondering if letting the free hole between the secondaries free will do damage to the engine ?

No, the part about one of the outter rod bore plugs ending up in surge tank was just a freak thing I guess. My question was on the remaining unplugged bores between each pair of intake channels and whether there would be problems. I don't think there would be considering the rate at which air is getting pulled in (even at idle); there would essentially be pretty even flow into each pair such that air movement within each connecting "tube" would be very minimal (in theory). However, 25 year old valves are not as precise as they were off the line, but I'm not gonna worry about it. LOL

My concern about IMRC itsn't just better air flow, the "close chamber" created when the secondary is close can accumulate a great quantity of carbon

I don't think it's carbon accumulation from exhaust so much as it is residue resulting from excessive moisture being put into surge tank via pcv line. If I could go back to when I bought the car, one of the first things I'd do is add the con can - I think the short pcv run was the main IMRC killer . . . gummed up the rods and plateS and the IMRC motor wound up pulling so hard it either popped the cable or the plastic internal gear gave out (I had both happen before I said "screw THIS"). MAN the sound of those things opening at medium-low speed was beastly . . .

 

[HOTREDSTANG]

No, the part about one of the outter rod bore plugs ending up in surge tank was just a freak thing I guess. My question was on the remaining unplugged bores between each pair of intake channels and whether there would be problems. I don't think there would be considering the rate at which air is getting pulled in (even at idle); there would essentially be pretty even flow into each pair such that air movement within each connecting "tube" would be very minimal (in theory). However, 25 year old valves are not as precise as they were off the line, but I'm not gonna worry about it. LOL

I don't think it's carbon accumulation from exhaust so much as it is residue resulting from excessive moisture being put into surge tank via pcv line. If I could go back to when I bought the car, one of the first things I'd do is add the con can - I think the short pcv run was the main IMRC killer . . . gummed up the rods and plateS and the IMRC motor wound up pulling so hard it either popped the cable or the plastic internal gear gave out (I had both happen before I said "screw THIS"). MAN the sound of those things opening at medium-low speed was beastly . . .

PVC & EGR it's all bad for any intake

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

Repairs completed ! I put red silicone hoses for the coolant (200C max operating temp). When rebolting the engine, these PCV hoses (crankcase and heads) just fallen apart and I had to replace all of them. Now the engine is going right and is strong. I was wondering if one head could have managed too much heat and warped but all seems good.

Now the sensor for low coolant is on all the time... I forgot to keep some water in the bottle when the car was waiting for repair, I think that could help prevent this. It was working before the incident.

 

[gamefanatic]

Now the sensor for low coolant is on all the time... I forgot to keep some water in the bottle when the car was waiting for repair, I think that could help prevent this. It was working before the incident.

Did you make sure the connector was back on? The sensor is typically what fails on these bottles before the bottle cracks, but shouldn't have anything to do with you leaving it dry. I know my connector's clips broke off long ago, so I have to ensure I get it plugged on by feel. Also, the light is set on a trigger and will not go off until you turn the key off and then back on.

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

This light comes on all the time when I take the car after like 10-15 sec but I never disconnected it... Something probably broke somewhere...

 

[GEN 3 SHO FAN]

I wanted to repair this sensor as it kept informed when the problem occrured and also gave me some hints many month before the hose broke (goes on sporadicly when I asked a bit more of the engine).

I made some test see what is going on and here is the story.

I plugged another bottle to see if the light will comes on after some seconds after engine on. The light not came on. Doing this, I was wondering why the sensor was always wet. Wet in the plug with some corrosion that I tryed to retreive. After some manipulations (the bottle was still plugged on the coolant hoses), I remarked that a small/medium crack formed on the bottom end of the bottle 3-4 inches... A small leak of coolant was escaping by it (but no big leak, the frame had no trace of leak on it) and goes to the lowest point of the bottle where the sensor is... At this moment, I decided to change bottle and sensor as corrossion probably destroy the internals of the sensor (doesn't work after many cleanings and tests).

Note : The sensor pop off easely from the bottle with a scewdriver.