Please help! Car stalling while driving, Fuel pump? Any ideas? *RESOLVED*

[SHObogdan1]

Hi everyone,

Today I was driving my 93 3.2 ATX and the car stalled. After it stalls, the car does not restart, it just cranks but doesn't start. I pushed the valve stem on the fuel rail and gas does come out but not with a lot of pressure. After waiting a few minutes, I would start the car and it would run fine. I drove a mile or so and it immediately stalled without any hesitation or galloping (such as from an intermittent failing fuel pump). Does anyone know the amount of fuel pressure the 3.2 ATX should have? Each time I would start the car it runs for approximately a mile then stalls again. There is no galloping (inconsistent) idle and the check engine doesn't come on until the car stalls. Any ideas, please help I really appreciate it.

P.S. In addition, the car does have gas, there is a half tank right now.

Thank-you all

 

[rubydist]

pull your codes.

you have classic symptoms of failing crank sensor, but there are other candidates too.

 

[ShadetreeSHOguy]

+1 about the failing crankshaft position sensor. Pull the codes

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/eec/eec.htm

If i was a betting man, your water pump is leaking out of the weephole and shorting the sensor out.

 

[SHObogdan1]

No coolant leaks. Crank position sensor is new, I remember before it was replaced that it never caused any stalling issues. It just didn't start when the engine was warm. So I don't believe that is the problem since it was changed not too long ago. I really do suspect that the issue is fuel related, I just don't know how to distinguish between a bad fuel pump relay, fuel pump, fuel filter, ccrm, pcm, or if the problem is caused by all of the above. I'm sure the fuel filter probably needs to be changed but I'm not 100% sure that is the cause because, like I mentioned, it does not gallop like it's out of gas, it just flat out stalls randomly while driving and does not want to start again. I replaced the IAC about a week ago. When I made the post earlier today, I pushed the car into a parking lot and waited for my father to pick me up. I would wait a few minutes and I would turn the key for the fuel pump to kick on and I didn't hear it at all. Anyways 25 minutes later, I tried it again and I did hear the fuel pump kick on and it started and I could only drive like a mile before it would stall again. Fortunately, I went back a couple hours later to get the car and I successfully made it home without stalling. I'm not that great at pulling the codes (it's kinda tricky to figure out which flash actually represents the first digit so I wrote all of them). The codes: 121, 157, 158, 735, 553, 587, 543 I looked some of them up, I know the first couple deal with the TPS and MAF, some I couldn't find listed on Shophoenixproject so I might've screwed up the order. Does any of this help to kinda distinguish which fault it could be?

 

[SHObogdan1]

I'll go ahead and replace the fuel filter, but do you guys know the normal stock fuel pressure for the 93 ATX? Is it 40 psi? By the way, I didn't mean to sound arrogant by disregarding the advice about checking the CPS. I remember that when the CPS was replaced 4k-5k ago, I had the codes 211 and 214 or something like that so I changed it and never had a problem with it since. Now I don't have those codes and I don't have any oil/coolant leaks either, that's why I said that. I appreciate everyone's support, thank-you all.

 

[rubydist]

121 = throttle sensor out of range. your car will not run right with this fault.
157 = mafs circuit below minimum voltage. this needs fixed too.
158 = mafs circuit above max voltage. this is getting confusing...
735 = not a valid code according to any of my lists...
553 = not on my lists either...
587 = not on my lists either...
543 = fuel pump secondary failure - this is set whenever the engine stalls and can be ignored.

I think you have a bad ground or bad connection in the wiring circuit that goes to the mafs and tps. Those are on the same circuit, and generally when you get the combination of codes you have, it is a wiring issue, not a sensor issue. I would start there.

btw, the tps is highly important to the engine management computer - if the pcm thinks the throttle is closed, then it will cut the fuel way back to match what it expects the airflow to be from the closed throttle, even if the rpm and mafs readings don't support this. So, you must get the tps to read properly.

 

[SHObogdan1]

UPDATE:

I noticed the the radiator fan does not run at all when the engine is running. I also have new codes.

KOEO Codes: 157, 158, 173, 543

KOER Codes: 173, 137, 129, 167, 536, 521, 632

This is starting to look like I have a faulty CCRM, TPS, MAF, O2 sensor(s) doesn't it?

 

[SHOdded]

I think you have a bad ground or bad connection in the wiring circuit that goes to the mafs and tps. Those are on the same circuit, and generally when you get the combination of codes you have, it is a wiring issue, not a sensor issue. I would start there.

This. THEN throw parts at it, one by one, gently.

 

[SHObogdan1]

Update:

I read here on the forum an article dealing with a bad CCRM with the author saying that his car was stalling and his radiator fan wasn't turning on at all, similar to what's happening to me. Anyways, I went to the junkyard today and picked up a really good CCRM J Code from a vehicle that only had 70k miles. I changed it and put in a new throttle position sensor but nothing is resolved. The fan does not turn on, I checked all the fuses and all of them are fine. The engine still stalls but it restarts without any problems. I can hear the fuel pump kick on fine now. What do I do now? Where (precisely) should I look now? Is there another sensor or relay that could cause the fan to not turn on? If anyone has some spare time to give me some feedback on this, it would be greatly appreciated. Obviously, I'm not an expert here, nor do I know the exact location of all the relays and sensors which could affect the fan. Thanks.

-Bogdan

 

[Irish Pride]

Run a lead from the battery to the fan motor and make sure the fan motor still works. This will rule out the possibility of 2 seperate issues.

 

[SHObogdan1]

I took the fan assembly off to test with a lead from the battery earlier today and found that both fans worked great, just not when it's all hooked up on the car. Now I guess I have to check out the ECT sensor, right?

 

[rubydist]

make sure you have power TO the ccrm. There are 2 separate input power leads, and you need power on both of them.

The last 89 that Richard and I put back together had a non-functioning radiator fan due to no power on that input into the ccrm.

edit:

does the cooling fan run when you pull codes? it should run for a few seconds pretty much right after you turn on the key with the jumper on the diagnostic connector. If that does not happen, then you have a power issue, not a sensor issue.

 

[SHObogdan1]

Well, I pulled the codes before I changed the CCRM and the fan did not turn on at all then. When I installed the new CCRM (and TPS) I started the car, waited for it to get up to normal temp but the the fans did not kick on. I'm REALLY stuck now lol because I have no idea how to figure out which wire to check for power on the CCRM, nor do I know how to trace the wire from the fans to the CCRM since they are wrapped and hidden in a bunch of different harnesses that seem to go everywhere. The only reason I figured the ECT sensor could be faulty is because for the past month or two, the CEL would turn on very briefly, then it would shut off for a while. It kept on doing that until the stalling problem began. Since it would just turn on and shut off, I ignored it. Now I guess this is just a huge process of elimination. Still not sure..........

edit: When I posted the update with the correct KOEO and KOER CEL codes, I pulled the codes three or four times and the first two times I got the code "116 - ECT out of range". The last time I pulled the codes, I got: 173, 137, 129, 167, 536, 521, 632 and those were the codes I posted here. No idea why 116 didn't show up the last couple times I checked them. But just to reaffirm, those were the codes I got before I changed the CCRM today.

 

[rubydist]

you need to reset the codes after you make changes so you are not chasing things that are no longer there.

iirc, the J code ccrm needs to see input power to pins 12 and 24 when the key is on.

 

[SHObogdan1]

Alright everyone, I think my problems are now solved. Today, I put the radiator fan assembly back on the car and plugged it all the connections. The ECT sensor was really bugging me and I took that off and went to the parts store to try to get a new one, but they didn't have one in stock. I was really bummed out but I put the old ECT sensor back in and reconnected the battery and started the car up. I let the engine warm up, and I finally heard the fans kick on!! The car was still running rough, especially at idle, so I unplugged the MAF and it idled smoothly without stalling from then on. The fan plugs were dirty and I cleaned them before putting the fan assembly back on the car so I guess that did the trick. I also tried the KOEO test and the fans did kick on then too. The old CCRM probably was bad because the fuel pump was not priming at all when I made the first post on the forum here. Anyways, I want to thank all of you for commenting and trying to help me out, especially rubydist, you really helped guide me through all of this stuff.