Silvapain
New Member
Back in January my SHO snapped a valve head off and damaged the #8 piston. I let it sit for a couple months, then contacted Doug Lewis about getting a new engine and rebuilt tranny, and he convinced me that it would be more economically feasible to just buy a rust-free southern SHO and part my current one out. I agreed, and I set up a verbal deal with Doug to buy an 80+K 97 ES car with grey cloth, no rust, and a rebuilt cam failure engine from him. A couple weeks later Kirk was in town dropping off a 96 RM at Paul Nimz’s house (I live very close to Paul), and I came down to see the new car and hang out with them. I told Kirk about the car I was buying from Doug, and Kirk told me that Doug was overcharging me and that he (Kirk) could give me a better deal. Kirk said he had a 97 SF with grey cloth interior (one of my main requirements in a new SHO), that was a cam failure. Kirk said he was going to drop in a rebuilt, welded engine and rebuilt tranny and was asking $5K for it. He said the car was from TN and was in great shape. I agreed, and told Doug I was backing out on our deal (which also meant that I forfeited a $500 downpayment). I also requested Flowmaster mufflers and an X-Cal2 be added to the car, bringing the total to $5750.
Two week later on Friday, April 13th (not making this up), Kirk dropped off the car. He pointed out some minor problems with the car – headlights were yellowed, steering wheel was worn, and one of the door speakers was blown – and offered to send me a new steering wheel and junkyard headlights. He also apologized that he didn’t have time to detail the car, so the interior was dusty. He assured me that his guys had driven the car for a couple days, and that they said the car was running great and in excellent condition. I told him not to worry about the steering wheel and headlights, and that it would be no problem for me to vacuum out the interior. We were on our way down to Paul’s again, so I didn’t have time to look at the car, aside from driving it off the trailer and into my driveway. I gave him the $5750, and we went our separate ways.
The next day when I went out to clean up the interior is when I first started noticing issues. Kirk mentioned that they had re-glued the dash down above the instrument cluster when he dropped the car off. When cleaning, I noticed that there was excess glue all over the column, instrument cluster, and up on the dash, as well as a large fingerprint molded in glue on the dash. I also noticed that there was a large rip in the carpet right at the base of the dead pedal in the driver’s footwell. The headliner was falling down, the moonroof didn’t slide back, The driver’s floormat was missing, there were multiple tears in all the vinyl panels on the car, and there was a tar-like substance in both grab handle pockets in the rear doors. When I went to inspect the exterior, I was even more disappointed. The front clip body panels did not line up, and there were massive gaps between the passenger headlight and the hood. Upon opening the hood, I discovered that there were spacer washers all over the passenger side of the car aligning the passenger fender and bumper cover. I also noticed that the lower rocker panel area of ther passenger fender and passenger front door had not been painted, and the original blue color of the body panels was clearly showing through. Apparently, the car had been repaired cheaply with SLO junkyard panels and very poorly shot with color. There was overspray literally over the entire car. All the windows had overspray mist on them. There were visible lines around the headlights and front sidemarker lamps where the painter had taped them off badly instead of removing them, and there were sections of the bumper cover that didn’t have paint on it. I also noticed that the bumper cover itself was torn from it’s metal mounting bracket on the driver’s side, and someone had attempted to “fix” it by using some sort of glue. When I removed the bumper cover, I noticed that the fiberglass radiator support was cracked in multiple places, and that the metal bumper underneath the cover had not been replaced after the accident.
Now on to the mechanical issues. Rather than go into a long discussion about every single issue, here is a crude list of all that I’ve replaced, as well as time and money it’s cost me. Take into account the fact that many of the parts replaced have come from my parts car:
Item Time (hr) Money
New alternator 3.0 $135.00
New serpentine Belt 1.0 $30.00
New Front Swaybar Endlinks 1.0 $80.00
Replace Thermostat 1.0
Replace split heater hose 1.0 $5.00
Replace smashed front metal bumper 5.0 $10.00
Replace torn carpet 4.0 $40.00
Replace broken glovebox 0.5 $10.00
Replace faulty MFS 0.5
Replace faulty parking brake switch 0.5
Fix moonroof 1.0
Fix broken CD changer 1.0 $10.00
Replace bad battery 0.5 $80.00
Clean car interior 8.5
Clean overspray off windows 2.0
Charge A/C system 1.5 $80.00
Replace front caliper bracket 1.5 $40.00
Replace Transmission mount 2.5 $30.00
Replace outer tie rod ends 0.5 $40.00
Replace pinched tranny line 2.0 $15.00
Replace TCC Solenoid 3.5 $25.00
Replace Font Hubs 8.0 $150.00
Remove A/C Clutch Spacer 1.5
Replace Lower Ball Joints 2.0
Total Cost 53.5 $780.00
At this time, the ABS system does not work, the CD changer is jammed for the third time, and the TC on the tranny is still slipping (on a transmission that was supposedly rebuilt). All this and I have only owned the car for just over two months.
I contacted Kirk via email on May 31st and said:
“Kirk,
I want to let you know how extremely dissatisfied I am with the 1997 SF SHO that I purchased from you on April 13th. I purchased the car without the opportunity to thoroughly inspect and test-drive the vehicle, but based my understanding on the condition of the vehicle on your reputation in the V8 SHO community and by your statements to me over the phone and via email. However, I have come to realize in the last month-and-a-half that this vehicle is in anything but good condition. I was never informed that the car was involved in a front-end collision, nor that much of the damage had not been repaired (as in the case of the radiator support and bumper) or had not been prepared properly (bumper cover is split; was simply repainted instead of replaced. Front clip has the absolute worst paint job I have ever seen – headlights and side-markers painted over, parts of the fender and bumper cover not painted at all).
In the last month-and-a-half, I have spent over forty hours and nearly $600 trying to get the car cleaned up and into proper working condition. To date, I have:
Item Time (hr) Money
New alternator 3.0 $135.00
New serpentine Belt 1.0 $30.00
New Front Swaybar Endlinks 1.0 $80.00
Replace Thermostat 1.0 Parts Car
Replace split heater hose 1.0 $5.00
Replace smashed front metal bumper 5.0 $10.00
Replace torn carpet 4.0 $40.00
Replace broken glovebox 0.5 $10.00
Replace faulty MFS 0.5 Parts Car
Replace faulty parking brake switch 0.5 Parts Car
Fix moonroof 1.0 $0.00
Fix broken CD changer 1.0 $10.00
Replace bad battery 0.5 $80.00
Clean car interior 8.5 $23.00
Clean overspray off windows 2.0 $0.00
Repair A/C system 1.0 $50.00
Replace front caliper bracket 1.5 $40.00
Replace Transmission mount 2.5 $30.00
Replace outer tie rod ends 0.5 $40.00
Replace pinched tranny line 2.0 $15.00
Total Cost 38.0 $598.00
And I am still not finished. The A/C system still does not work, the ABS system does not work (and consequently, the ABS warning light in the instrument cluster does not work), there is a horrendous clunking in the front suspension that I suspect is either the lower ball joints (the boots on both lower ball joints are badly torn) or the strut bearings, the fiberglass radiator support is cracked, and the transmission 1-2 shift slams and the TC clutch doe not lockup properly. I'm not even getting started on the fact that the whole front end of the frame is crooked, and the bumper cover and passenger fender needs to be replaced and the whole front clip repainted properly. Now, I am not expecting to get a showroom-floor quality car for $5K, but I am expecting to get a vehicle that's worth what I paid for.
At this point, I am fed-up with the time and money I have put into this car and I just want it gone. I want to return the car to you, including the SCT tuner, and be refunded the $5750 I paid you plus half my incurred expenses as far as repairs. I will include the minor modifications I made to the car if you like (98-99 taillights with dual-light mod, Gen 2 ATX tranny cooler, foglights mounted but not wired, steering wheel cover, Yamaha badges, brake bias plugs, ALSFB, 24/26 swaybar combo, etc), or I can return the car to the condition in which I received it from you. I am also willing to meet you halfway between Spencer, MA and Bourbonnais, IL to make the transfer.
I still feel that you are an honest man and that you have integrity, and I feel that we can still have good business dealings in the future.
Daniel J. Holtman”
He replied on June 11th with:
“Dan, Im sorry that you feel that way but there is no returns on things like this, I lost my shirt on that car and thought I was doing you a favor selling it to you at that price. The car cost me 1000 as a dead Southern car I then had to tow it home from Nashville a the sum of 400.00 I installed a refreshed motor in it 3200.00 a new transmission 2600.00 newer tires 300, good chromes 600, had the bumpers painted 300, the tuner 400, the flows 300, towing it out there 425.00 and all of the work that I did to it like sway out a power antenna, cup holder, tail lights and other things that I cant remember.
All of the things you listed as work that was done by you are common V8SHO things to go wrong and everyone was checked thoroughly before the car was brought to you. The car was in 100% order when delivered to you. I had felt bad about the over spray on the windows, the headlights and the painting of the headlight support which I told you about and you said don’t worry and thanks for the extra effort.
In real money I spent 9525.00 on that car from start to delivered, to collect 5750.00. But a man of integrity I am, I told you things that I was unhappy about but still go the all clear when you brought me over to cash the check at your bank, I cant refund anything on it but what I can do for you is a driveline swap into another G3 chassis witch I get 700.00 for, Ill eat that but you would need to get me the chassis or on one of my trips out there I could tow a chassis back for transplant. Or seeing that you have all theses things corrected, you could hang in there and look for a G4 for me to transplant off of your goodies into, Ill eat the same 700 for the transplant and you would only be responsible for the wiring And the transfer of your brakes, wheels and other things.
Again im sorry your not happy, what I have offered is the best I can do for you right now and even that this car will have cost ME over 10000.
Kirk J Doucette
www.nesho.com
SCT Dealer
1085 Welded”
I hope this gives you some insight to the issues I’ve had with this car since I bought it. Admittedly, I purchased the car sight-unseen, with no written warranty; however, I did so because I was given the assurance from Kirk that the car would be in good aesthetic and mechanical condition, and I trusted the word of someone so very highly regarded in the SHO community. I guarantee I won’t be so trusting again.
-Daniel Holtman
Two week later on Friday, April 13th (not making this up), Kirk dropped off the car. He pointed out some minor problems with the car – headlights were yellowed, steering wheel was worn, and one of the door speakers was blown – and offered to send me a new steering wheel and junkyard headlights. He also apologized that he didn’t have time to detail the car, so the interior was dusty. He assured me that his guys had driven the car for a couple days, and that they said the car was running great and in excellent condition. I told him not to worry about the steering wheel and headlights, and that it would be no problem for me to vacuum out the interior. We were on our way down to Paul’s again, so I didn’t have time to look at the car, aside from driving it off the trailer and into my driveway. I gave him the $5750, and we went our separate ways.
The next day when I went out to clean up the interior is when I first started noticing issues. Kirk mentioned that they had re-glued the dash down above the instrument cluster when he dropped the car off. When cleaning, I noticed that there was excess glue all over the column, instrument cluster, and up on the dash, as well as a large fingerprint molded in glue on the dash. I also noticed that there was a large rip in the carpet right at the base of the dead pedal in the driver’s footwell. The headliner was falling down, the moonroof didn’t slide back, The driver’s floormat was missing, there were multiple tears in all the vinyl panels on the car, and there was a tar-like substance in both grab handle pockets in the rear doors. When I went to inspect the exterior, I was even more disappointed. The front clip body panels did not line up, and there were massive gaps between the passenger headlight and the hood. Upon opening the hood, I discovered that there were spacer washers all over the passenger side of the car aligning the passenger fender and bumper cover. I also noticed that the lower rocker panel area of ther passenger fender and passenger front door had not been painted, and the original blue color of the body panels was clearly showing through. Apparently, the car had been repaired cheaply with SLO junkyard panels and very poorly shot with color. There was overspray literally over the entire car. All the windows had overspray mist on them. There were visible lines around the headlights and front sidemarker lamps where the painter had taped them off badly instead of removing them, and there were sections of the bumper cover that didn’t have paint on it. I also noticed that the bumper cover itself was torn from it’s metal mounting bracket on the driver’s side, and someone had attempted to “fix” it by using some sort of glue. When I removed the bumper cover, I noticed that the fiberglass radiator support was cracked in multiple places, and that the metal bumper underneath the cover had not been replaced after the accident.
Now on to the mechanical issues. Rather than go into a long discussion about every single issue, here is a crude list of all that I’ve replaced, as well as time and money it’s cost me. Take into account the fact that many of the parts replaced have come from my parts car:
Item Time (hr) Money
New alternator 3.0 $135.00
New serpentine Belt 1.0 $30.00
New Front Swaybar Endlinks 1.0 $80.00
Replace Thermostat 1.0
Replace split heater hose 1.0 $5.00
Replace smashed front metal bumper 5.0 $10.00
Replace torn carpet 4.0 $40.00
Replace broken glovebox 0.5 $10.00
Replace faulty MFS 0.5
Replace faulty parking brake switch 0.5
Fix moonroof 1.0
Fix broken CD changer 1.0 $10.00
Replace bad battery 0.5 $80.00
Clean car interior 8.5
Clean overspray off windows 2.0
Charge A/C system 1.5 $80.00
Replace front caliper bracket 1.5 $40.00
Replace Transmission mount 2.5 $30.00
Replace outer tie rod ends 0.5 $40.00
Replace pinched tranny line 2.0 $15.00
Replace TCC Solenoid 3.5 $25.00
Replace Font Hubs 8.0 $150.00
Remove A/C Clutch Spacer 1.5
Replace Lower Ball Joints 2.0
Total Cost 53.5 $780.00
At this time, the ABS system does not work, the CD changer is jammed for the third time, and the TC on the tranny is still slipping (on a transmission that was supposedly rebuilt). All this and I have only owned the car for just over two months.
I contacted Kirk via email on May 31st and said:
“Kirk,
I want to let you know how extremely dissatisfied I am with the 1997 SF SHO that I purchased from you on April 13th. I purchased the car without the opportunity to thoroughly inspect and test-drive the vehicle, but based my understanding on the condition of the vehicle on your reputation in the V8 SHO community and by your statements to me over the phone and via email. However, I have come to realize in the last month-and-a-half that this vehicle is in anything but good condition. I was never informed that the car was involved in a front-end collision, nor that much of the damage had not been repaired (as in the case of the radiator support and bumper) or had not been prepared properly (bumper cover is split; was simply repainted instead of replaced. Front clip has the absolute worst paint job I have ever seen – headlights and side-markers painted over, parts of the fender and bumper cover not painted at all).
In the last month-and-a-half, I have spent over forty hours and nearly $600 trying to get the car cleaned up and into proper working condition. To date, I have:
Item Time (hr) Money
New alternator 3.0 $135.00
New serpentine Belt 1.0 $30.00
New Front Swaybar Endlinks 1.0 $80.00
Replace Thermostat 1.0 Parts Car
Replace split heater hose 1.0 $5.00
Replace smashed front metal bumper 5.0 $10.00
Replace torn carpet 4.0 $40.00
Replace broken glovebox 0.5 $10.00
Replace faulty MFS 0.5 Parts Car
Replace faulty parking brake switch 0.5 Parts Car
Fix moonroof 1.0 $0.00
Fix broken CD changer 1.0 $10.00
Replace bad battery 0.5 $80.00
Clean car interior 8.5 $23.00
Clean overspray off windows 2.0 $0.00
Repair A/C system 1.0 $50.00
Replace front caliper bracket 1.5 $40.00
Replace Transmission mount 2.5 $30.00
Replace outer tie rod ends 0.5 $40.00
Replace pinched tranny line 2.0 $15.00
Total Cost 38.0 $598.00
And I am still not finished. The A/C system still does not work, the ABS system does not work (and consequently, the ABS warning light in the instrument cluster does not work), there is a horrendous clunking in the front suspension that I suspect is either the lower ball joints (the boots on both lower ball joints are badly torn) or the strut bearings, the fiberglass radiator support is cracked, and the transmission 1-2 shift slams and the TC clutch doe not lockup properly. I'm not even getting started on the fact that the whole front end of the frame is crooked, and the bumper cover and passenger fender needs to be replaced and the whole front clip repainted properly. Now, I am not expecting to get a showroom-floor quality car for $5K, but I am expecting to get a vehicle that's worth what I paid for.
At this point, I am fed-up with the time and money I have put into this car and I just want it gone. I want to return the car to you, including the SCT tuner, and be refunded the $5750 I paid you plus half my incurred expenses as far as repairs. I will include the minor modifications I made to the car if you like (98-99 taillights with dual-light mod, Gen 2 ATX tranny cooler, foglights mounted but not wired, steering wheel cover, Yamaha badges, brake bias plugs, ALSFB, 24/26 swaybar combo, etc), or I can return the car to the condition in which I received it from you. I am also willing to meet you halfway between Spencer, MA and Bourbonnais, IL to make the transfer.
I still feel that you are an honest man and that you have integrity, and I feel that we can still have good business dealings in the future.
Daniel J. Holtman”
He replied on June 11th with:
“Dan, Im sorry that you feel that way but there is no returns on things like this, I lost my shirt on that car and thought I was doing you a favor selling it to you at that price. The car cost me 1000 as a dead Southern car I then had to tow it home from Nashville a the sum of 400.00 I installed a refreshed motor in it 3200.00 a new transmission 2600.00 newer tires 300, good chromes 600, had the bumpers painted 300, the tuner 400, the flows 300, towing it out there 425.00 and all of the work that I did to it like sway out a power antenna, cup holder, tail lights and other things that I cant remember.
All of the things you listed as work that was done by you are common V8SHO things to go wrong and everyone was checked thoroughly before the car was brought to you. The car was in 100% order when delivered to you. I had felt bad about the over spray on the windows, the headlights and the painting of the headlight support which I told you about and you said don’t worry and thanks for the extra effort.
In real money I spent 9525.00 on that car from start to delivered, to collect 5750.00. But a man of integrity I am, I told you things that I was unhappy about but still go the all clear when you brought me over to cash the check at your bank, I cant refund anything on it but what I can do for you is a driveline swap into another G3 chassis witch I get 700.00 for, Ill eat that but you would need to get me the chassis or on one of my trips out there I could tow a chassis back for transplant. Or seeing that you have all theses things corrected, you could hang in there and look for a G4 for me to transplant off of your goodies into, Ill eat the same 700 for the transplant and you would only be responsible for the wiring And the transfer of your brakes, wheels and other things.
Again im sorry your not happy, what I have offered is the best I can do for you right now and even that this car will have cost ME over 10000.
Kirk J Doucette
www.nesho.com
SCT Dealer
1085 Welded”
I hope this gives you some insight to the issues I’ve had with this car since I bought it. Admittedly, I purchased the car sight-unseen, with no written warranty; however, I did so because I was given the assurance from Kirk that the car would be in good aesthetic and mechanical condition, and I trusted the word of someone so very highly regarded in the SHO community. I guarantee I won’t be so trusting again.
-Daniel Holtman