Must Read----> Camshaft Seal Info

[Dr. Tweak]

*sigh*

Well, as some of you might know, I just completed my lower 60k. Well, tonight I was searching shoforum in referance to an oil leak which I though was coming from my power steering pump. (See footnote)

After much learning, I found out that it's not the power steering pump at all (in all likelyhood) but the cam seals. This also explains how I my CPS went. So, this means that I'm going to be tearing down this whole thing again *sigh*. headbang Acually I'm looking forward to it, because I want to really clean everything really well, and take care of a few other things while I'm at it.

Speaking of which, does anyone have the special tools needed to install these seals that I could borrow (with deposit of course thumb )

By the way, if you have oil leaking all over your power steering pump and motor mount, it very well may be the cam seals.

*FOOTNOTE*
I have to say I absolutely love this place. I don't know what I would do without it. There is so much great knowledge here, and a lot of great people. I think we all need to stop for a second and realize how fortunate we are. Let's give it up for Bizzy and the SHO Gurus for keeping this place going and making it so great!

I would like to especially like to thank Scott Patterson, it seems like his posts were on almost every thread asking about this. It amazes me when I see him answer the same questions again and again and again without losing patience and saying something like "DO A SEARCH!". Either that or he has a bad short-term memory

Give it up for sdpatt! Give it up now! beer

<small>[ December 27, 2003, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: JDLangevin ]</small>

 

[Mr Anonymous]

JDLangevin:
Speaking of which, does anyone have the special tools needed to install these seals that I could borrow (with deposit of course thumb )

Just buy some PVC pipe of the same diameter of the cam seals at your local Home Depot-type store. That with a rubber mallet will install them as well (if not better) than the Rotunda tool.

 

[Bizzy]

the cam seal expander seems to be very helpful. I'd let you borrow mine, but it's in a box and on its way to another forum member today. If you want to put off your seal replacemnent about 1-1.5 weeks I can loan it to ya for just cost of shipping.

 

[sdpatt]

Another option for the seal removal is drilling a small tap hole in the center of the seal's edge and inserting a sheet metal or wood screw into the hole. Use pliers to pull on the screw. You must be extremely careful not to touch the camshafts with the drill bit. I have used a Dremel tool with flexible shaft to access the seal under the CID sensor. If the oil is leaking outside the timing belt covers and onto the rear motor mount, it is the rear bank exhaust cam seal at the CID sensor that is leaking. The other intake cam seals will leak down inside the timing belt covers.

 

[haydenm315]

Mr. Anonymous:

JDLangevin:
Speaking of which, does anyone have the special tools needed to install these seals that I could borrow (with deposit of course thumb )

Just buy some PVC pipe of the same diameter of the cam seals at your local Home Depot-type store. That with a rubber mallet will install them as well (if not better) than the Rotunda tool.

I installed all of mine with nothing more than my hands. Then again, I did do cams at the same time and had the cam journals off. I guess removing the manifold and valve covers is extra work for replacing just the cam seals.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

netviper:
the cam seal expander seems to be very helpful. I'd let you borrow mine, but it's in a box and on its way to another forum member today. If you want to put off your seal replacemnent about 1-1.5 weeks I can loan it to ya for just cost of shipping.

Hey, that would be great. I probably won't be able to get to it for at least a week anyway, and at this point I've decided the SHO is going to stay in the garage (and out of the salt) until all the maintainence is up to date. Let me know when you get that back, okay? Thanks!

 

[Hack]

JDLangevin:

*FOOTNOTE*
I have to say I absolutely love this place. I don't know what I would do without it. There is so much great knowledge here, and a lot of great people. I think we all need to stop for a second and realize how fortunate we are. Let's give it up for Bizzy and the SHO Gurus for keeping this place going and making it so great!

I would like to especially like to thank Scott Patterson, it seems like his posts were on almost every thread asking about this. It amazes me when I see him answer the same questions again and again and again without losing patience and saying something like "DO A SEARCH!". Either that or he has a bad short-term memory

Give it up for sdpatt! Give it up now! beer

I agree 100%! I have done some searches on various technical items, and always find the same thing. Here's to you Scott! beer
And one more for the rest of the forum beer pizza

 

[haydenm315]

yellowSHO
Give it up for sdpatt! Give it up now! beer [/qb]

I agree 100%! I have done some searches on various technical items, and always find the same thing. Here's to you Scott! beer
And one more for the rest of the forum beer pizza [/QB][/QUOTE]

Sd's pretty knowledgeable. He does the work himself and has one of the highest mileage and maintained sho's on here. I think he was on the money with the oil leak I reported a month ago. My valve cover was getting oil on it around a few of the bolts. The dipstick tube had oil around it, and the rear timing belt cover seals around the cams were also pretty dirty. I think the half moon shaped part of the valve cover gasket was leaking. I put some hi temp rtv to seal up the valve cover bolt bushings, on the 2 corners of where the valve cover gasket meets the head, and around the half moon shaped area on the front head. It's only been a couple days, but the area is still clean and free of oil and grime.

 

[sdpatt]

Thank you for your gracious comments. It has been a while since I have worked on another's engine, but I am scheduled to perform the front end 100K on an ATX this Wednesday (Dec. 31). The owner's primary complaint is a significant oil leak. It could be from the front main oil seal or the intake cam seals since the oil is dripping from the lower timing belt cover. I advised the owner that it is likely the main crank seal, but to also bring the cam seals just in case they are the source. We shall see.

 

[Rockledge]

Hey there,

Since I was at it again for a little while this afternoon, I figured I'd post some feedback regarding my first experience replacing the cam seals in my SHO (no flames please ). Suffice to say, it went somewhat less than smooth, but no big problems arose either.

First, just removing the seal located under the CMP sensor was a huge PITA for me. I was worried about damaging the shaft and everything else in there when I was drilling the hole for the screw. Even with a Dremel flex hose and using a punch it was hard for me to get the drill bit positioned both effectively and safely. I finally managed, but it took much more time than I had hoped to pull that seal. The other seals came out rather easily in comparison.

With respect to installing the new seals, I started with the right-most seal (facing the front of the engine). However, I did not have much luck using the PVC pipe method ...the pipe fit perfectly around the shafts and seemed to be doing the trick but once the seal was all the way in I could see that the rubber had "pinched" on the outer-most part of the seal in a few places, and it simply did not look satisfactory to me like that. So at that point I knew the job was going to take a little longer, since that meant yanking the new seal and ordering another set (3) of Fel Pro seals from AutoZone and waiting a few days for them (I picked them up yesterday).

For this afternoon I had gotten a hold of a 1-5/8" socket and tried using that instead of the PVC pipe to press the new seals into place. And instead of grease, I lubricated the edges of the seals and stuff using the slipperiest thing I know of - PB Blaster! Both the socket and Blaster made a huge difference ...the first two seals popped in much smoother that way. But once again I had a heck of a time with that third seal under the CMP sensor! headbang To make a long story short, I ended up using a short piece of wood as a wedge and utilyzed the socket and an old seal to press the new seal into place (make sense?). After that I was only able to get the rear timing belt cover and cam sprockets back on and put the CKP sensor wire in place before it was time for me to quit for the day.

So now that the cam seals are done, I must admit, I am happy and relieved that I can move onto the next phase.

Next up is the crank seal ...not looking foward at all to replacing it, actually! Which reminds me to ask, do you really think I need to replace my crank seal? I've been told it looks pretty good. Here it is, what do you think?

Alternatively, is there any way someone like me can get a new crank seal in there without creating more problems for myself?

 

[Bryan C. King]

Crank seal looks good, If I were you I'd leave it alone and replace it if it leaks later down the road. But if you allready have the seal and have gone that far you just might want too

<small>[ December 31, 2003, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Bryan C. King ]</small>

 

[Dr. Tweak]

I acually had a pretty easy time doing my crank seal, I don't think you'll have any trouble doing it after the cam seals.

Speaking of which, I'm going to be tackling my cam seals in a little while here... as soon as a certain netviper can send me some tools...

 

[Bizzy]

word from a trusted SHO person in the northeast is that the Felpro seals for cams and cranksahfts don't fit exactly right, I experienced the crank seal not seating right as did a friend of mine, he mangled his, I was able to get mine on good when I did my 60k.

Only Ford seals for things like front crank seal, rear crank seal, and cam seals for me now

 

[Dr. Tweak]

So... are those tools anywhere in sight? Or am I going to be waiting for a while...? frown

 

[sdpatt]

netviper:
word from a trusted SHO person in the northeast is that the Felpro seals for cams and cranksahfts don't fit exactly right, I experienced the crank seal not seating right as did a friend of mine, he mangled his, I was able to get mine on good when I did my 60k.

Only Ford seals for things like front crank seal, rear crank seal, and cam seals for me now

Well, actually, Ford doesn't make the seals for the cams and crank. I serviced a 1993 SHO yesterday for its first front end 100K and found the following to support my past observations. The OEM (original equipment manufacturer) for the cam seals is Fel-Pro and the the TCS45870 seal set is an exact replacment. The OEM supplier for the crank seal seems to be National (Federal Mogul) as the 710220 is identical to the original.

These seals fit fine. They should fit with a firm press and may require more force than a simple fingertip to seal correctly. I use a 1-1/4" PVC coupling that is about 3" long to help install the new seals. I tap on it with a rubber mallet for the intake cam seals and the handle end of a large screwdriver for the rear bank exhaust seal.

I would suggest NOT using PB Blaster to help install the seals as the function of this solvent is also as a penetrant and may damage the rubber of the seal. The seals should be pre-lubed with silicone grease during installation as the National crank seal is already equipped. You can also use a petrolium based lubricant such as lithium grease to let the seals start their life with a bit of slip until the oil flows.

Rockledge, the crank seal looks fine, but that is after you cleaned up the area. (Your engine looks to be in very good shape). If you can get the cam seals out with a drill and screw, then the crank seal should be a piece of cake. It has the same metal backbone as the cam seals and good marin for drill bit *********** behind it - just don't push the drill too hard. Using a claw hammer to torque on the screw is easier in this location and can easily slide the old seal out. To get all the way to the seal *** no replace it is a waste of time and effort. Just do it.

 

[Dr. Tweak]

It's true, it's like what, $5? ****

 

[Rockledge]

Thanks guys, I knew you would give me the kick in the pants that I needed! After reading your posts I promptly walked out to my garage and drilled a hole in the old crank seal and pulled it out so that I HAD to install a new one! LOL

I just got done replacing the crank seal and it went great ...much easier to install than the cam seals, IMO. Like Scott said, the new crank seal already had some **** on it so all I did was add a little more silicone grease to the outer edges. And JD I used your trick of warming up the area around the crank where the seal sits since it was very cold from the night before. I actually think the warmth helped the grease get nice and slippery as I pressed the seal in.

As a presser I ended up using a piece of 2 inch PVC pipe about 3 feet long, and I cut a notch out of it about 6" long x 1" so that I could position the end nice and square against the seal without the pipe rubbing against the fender. I checked to make sure the pipe diameter was a good fit with the diameter of the seal and it was. Two pops later with a rubber mallet and the seal was in, straight and true. hail

Now, onward!

 

[Dr. Tweak]

thumb

2" pvc is the way to go, I think that's the exact size you're supposed to use. Well I think I'm going to wait for those special tools to do mine since I'm not in a big hurry to get back on the road.... I need a battery and stuff before it can come out again anyway... and why bring it out in the salt, right? beer

 

[Zap]

Hmm... just wanted to say thanks for all of the helpful information, as I'm going to be doing the CID seal once the SHO is off the jackstands and the engine supports are out of the way. Hopefully that will be before the end of the week. I can't wait to have a SHO that doesn't smell of burnt oil and doesn't leak badly from that spot.

 

[sdpatt]

Here is a picture of the cam seal installer tool that I used. Note the label: this is a coupling for 1-1/4" PVC pipe. The funny thing is that this is also the tool I used to press on the MTX quill tube as the label on the other side of the coupling states.

Here is a photo of the lower timing belt cover before cleanup that reveals evidence of a main crank seal leak and/or intake cam seal leaks.

Here is a photo of the rear timing belt cover after the camshaft pulleys have been removed. Notice the oil residue that is evidence of the intake camshaft seals leaking.

Here are photos of the center timing belt cover and CID sensor that reveal the rear bank exhaust camshaft seal leak. The CID sensor is also dripping oil from its bottom.