More questions on spun rod bearings

[ricksmol]

Would a motor with a spun rod bearing produce large amounts of smoke coming from the exhaust, without any knocking noise from the engine?

My motor recently started to smoke quite heavily. I have replaced all 24 valve seals and am waiting for a cam chain tensioner to finish the job. The motor did not make any noise with the exception of a chain rustle (which I found out to be from a worn tensioner pad)and ran quite well.

I am thinking ahead that if the motor still smokes after this maybe a spun rod bearing? ...which seems to be quite common from what I read. The engine has 88K I have had it since new and religiously changed the oil and filter every 3K. When I opened it up the cylinder heads are clean as new. The valve seals that I took out are worn and brittle, but the valve guides are nice and snug. So I will keep my fingers crossed that it will not smoke anymore, but just in case I wanted to find out about the rod bearings.

Rick

<small>[ December 26, 2002, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: ricksmol ]</small>

 

[twr]

ricksmol:
Would a motor with a spun rod bearing produce large amounts of smoke coming from the exhaust, without any knocking noise from the engine?

My motor recently started to smoke quite heavily. I have replaced all 24 valve seals and am waiting for a cam chain tensioner to finish the job. The motor did not make any noise with the exception of a chain rustle (which I found out to be from a worn tensioner pad)and ran quite well.

I am thinking ahead that if the motor still smokes after this maybe a spun rod bearing? ...which seems to be quite common from what I read. The engine has 88K I have had it since new and religiously changed the oil and filter every 3K. When I opened it up the cylinder heads are clean as new. The valve seals that I took out are worn and brittle, but the valve guides are nice and smug. So I will keep my fingers crossed that it will not smoke anymore, but just in case I wanted to find out about the rod bearings.

Rick

Spun rod bearing and smoking out the tail pipe are unrelated to each other. What color smoke??

 

[ricksmol]

Bluish ...definitely burning oil.No coolant being burnt.How'bout a stuck piston ring? Could it happen in the SHO? (hope not broken)
Rick

 

[twr]

Don't know - never heard of an N/A SHO having piston ring or oiling ring problems.

 

[X-15 SHO]

Sounds like you had some bad leaks on the valve seals and it's burning up the oil that leaked through. If it doesn't clear up in a couple days or 50 miles don't know what to tell you besides some worn piston rings.

 

[yamapowered]

I am thinking ahead that if the motor still smokes after this maybe a spun rod bearing? ...which seems to be quite common from what I read. The engine has 88K I have had it since new and religiously changed the oil and filter every 3K. When I opened it up the cylinder heads are clean as new. The valve seals that I took out are worn and brittle, but the valve guides are nice and smug.

this is just my opinion from my own experience,
so I hope that others that post after me dont
just say something to feel smart.

if you have changed your oil every 3k and
you have 88k on the engine that means you
had to of changed the oil 29 times, which
is what the oil manufacture and the vehicle
manufacture tells you to do for proper
maintanence, well I hate to burst the bubble
but dino oil aka petrolium oil, is pure and
total garbage, thats why its so cheap and
only stays in the engine so long, why you ask?
well real simple, that garbage they sell at
any discount store only can do so much job,
a yamaha engine 3.0 makes 73 horsepower per
liter, its a **** of a high performance engine,
hence SHO=super high output,
where am I going with this?
real simple, petrolium oil has limitations,
go and look up any dino oil technicals online
and find out 2 ratings, flash point and
fire point, regular oil turns to smoke
around 380 degrees, at 320 degrees its making
sludge,
your engine running down the inerstate at 80 mph
with ac on and full power,you may see around 300 degrees oil temp around 1hr interval, thats if you have 5 quarts of oil and 50/50 mix coolant
in the system, full, and hope the brakes are not sticking or the auto trans t/c isnt tore up.
If any of those problems happen to be present
then the oil temp will raise accordingly.

your car burning oil at 88k is simple,
you have burnt oil on and around the piston rings
and instead of ring to land contact you have ring to sludge to ring land contact wich lets fresh oil pass to the combustion chamber, wich leads to
oil compsumption,
all the area around all the rings in your engine
Ill bet have burnt oil all around the pistons.

two ways to clean that up
disassemble and clean
or find other means

if you like to hear of a easy way out I will
entertain you and the readers here,
I fixed my problems with synthetic oil.
I used Amsoil 5W30 with Amsoil filter
been in the car now 10k and havent changed
the filter yet, oil is still clean on the dip
stick, and i have 2500 miles till i change the filter and add more 5W30
Amsoil recommends to change the oil once a year
or 25000 miles.
why I used it? real simple the oil isnt petrolium
its chemical and it dosent burn till 470 degrees.
not even Mobil One can claim that

the oil will clean out all petrolium sludge over
a period of time, and will consume oil till all
the dino oil is gone, then you will have a clean
burning engine again with one year service intervalls, imagine that!

oh and I saw somewhere some goof said in a post
that synthetic oil will make the rod bearing spin,
yea ok, if thats true, then the 88k motor you have
indeed has a spun bearing, based on that theory.

merry X-mas
happy new year! thumbs_u

 

[SHOZ123]

Try this Auto R-X

<small>[ December 26, 2002, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: SHOZ123 ]</small>

 

[sdpatt]

yamapowered:
...but the valve guides are nice and smug.

They are quite proud of themselves.

yamapowered:
...this is just my opinion from my own experience, so I hope that others that post after me dont just say something to feel smart.

...well I hate to burst the bubble
but dino oil aka petrolium oil, is pure and
total garbage....

For your first post on this board, I certainly wouldn't go so far as to accuse you of being one to make a gentle opening. Amsoil may be a quality product, but you should try out the search feature at the top right of the Forum pages to find the many topics on the heated and ongoing discussion regarding the goods and bads of using synthetic or petrolium based oils in the SHO engine. Me and my 268,950 mile SHO and her un-sludged valve train, unmarked cam lobes and original bearings, are firmly in the corner with the dino-based oozings of Castrol GTX. You can keep your Amsoil in your crankcase and your wallet a bit thinner. Your choice. Just let me know when your "superior" lubricant allows your engine to reach that mileage milestone.

 

[gosho89]

WOW yamapowered, that some kind'va slam on the dyno oil, I'd like to see some oil anaylist to back them up. I currently have my engine oil on a sampling program, lets see some anaylist sheets on your oil and filter media. I agree synthetics have there place but I don't agree with that extended oil intervals. Does NASA know about this stuff? We'll see you posting for a new engine in a year or two.

I hope people aren't mislead by your claims

<small>[ December 26, 2002, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: gosho89 ]</small>

 

[MeShoHorny]

SHOZ123:
Try this Auto R-X

I have used the above treatment and this stuff really works. I'm not going to get into a rant like yamapowered did, so if anyone is interested in the properties of different oils and additives I suggest you check out THIS site. A lot of very informative folks posting there.

 

[yamapowered]

glad to see Im welcomed here
now for the dude that said my wallet will
be thinner, could you do the math for us all?
based on 3k oil changes for dino oil, and lets say
88000 miles just to make it fun
I know what it cost for 25000 miles,
with Amsoil, Ill include 2 Amsoil filters and
10 quarts 10W30, since thats the way I buy it,
price for 2.5 gallon oil $44.00 2 filters SDF34
$7.25 each $14.50 for both shipping$15
total $73.50 for one year service and a little left over for the lawnmower maybe?
my SHO to date has been 10k and has used 1.5 quarts of oil,
I purchased the car at 60k and had to service
the poor thing, rust for coolant, steering rack replaced,subframes added, motor mount tied to frame, with piece of steel welded to frame,oil change to synthetic with flush, Amsoil flush,
tranny serviced with Amsoil,
original owner never serviced
it, I finished today all the plugs and siliconed
the sparg plug seals, I pulled #3 plug and the threaded part stayed in the head, till I found
MEAN MR EASY OUT.
Whew that was scary
oh and let me add
I wouldnt know what to do without the informative people here, much better crew here than any mustang site
ok lets get back to the oil thingy at hand
lets be real who changes thier oil every 3k?????
I know I cant do that every time on demand
life happens and I just aint got time to crawl around on the ground and goof with dirty oil
but to you guys that do I hope you guys can help me out, how much does a oil change cost from discount store?
I used to do it I think it cost around $10?
Is your time worth anything? mine is worth
$150 hr when im working anyway lets have a
little example of who would spend what in 88k miles changing the oil
imagine the price if you went to jiffy ****????
I couldnt let someone that works for $10hr touch
my SHO engine, especially the OIL PAN PLUG!

oh and by the way Amsoil also has a dual filter
setup that eliminates oil changes all together,
a full flow filter with a bypass filter,
works great, I use that system on my F350 Ford
diesel 50k and going.
I will be adding the bypass to the SHO soon
what a savings eh?
ahh Im probably just full of hot air like
everyone says I am,
I love the stealth of my SHO but Im a little
scared to out run the local yocal round here,
like I can in my 69 ranchero,
The SHO sure is fun with the honda boys,
most know the fate before they try but
some are a little hard headed,
A little NOS might make it a little
easier for me to let them go and reel em in,
sometimes I sleep at the light
happy holidays dudes
Javier

 

[yamapowered]

every jet engine in the world uses synthetic oil.
thats for the Nasa question but Nasa dont use it in rocket powered vehicles.
and for analysis, A recent tect conducted by
Amsoil, went head to head with Mobil one with an
ad saying nothing outperforms Mobile one.
they used five key bench test measuring oil
performance, NOACK volatility,flash/fire point,
pour point,four ball wear and total base number
{TBN}
Amsoil outperformed Mobil one in all five areas.

In another test they did with a buick V6 engine
they tested the oil for 240 hrs running time,
dino oil lasted 80 before being contaminated,
and at 120 hrs failed all together, Amsoil was still good
at 240 hrs
the engine was Buick 3800 V6 run at 3600 rpm
pushing 100 bhp

and for the ones who dont agree, remeber this,
let no good deed go unpunished!

 

[yamapowered]

hey sdpatt I just felt bad you had to do so many
oil changes in all those miles, my back hurts just thinking about it and at 268,950 miles
with a $14 oil change that would cost around
$1250 with dino
with synthetic oil, $550 for oil, 10, 2.5 gallon
10W30 containers
and 20 SDF34 filters $196 shipping included in cost
for a total of $746
not to mention how many saved hrs of labor,
just the facts Im dealing with here
Im not disrespecting anyone here
I have used dino before and noticed
a difference between brands
and Im sure some oil will perform for some people,
at 268 950 miles thats pretty good,
uncle Saddam is happy with your investment

X 15= Thought I'd say that for you Scott since your a nice man and wouldn't say nothing like that to others
bla bla bla bla bla
facts would be nice
for a change
Im sure Scott is a grown man
and speaks for himself,

 

[X-15 SHO]

yamahapowered, if saving money to you sounds better compared to blowing up a motor, you have problems and should'nt have bought the SHO.

<small>[ December 27, 2002, 04:59 AM: Message edited by: X-15 SHO ]</small>

 

[Rob94]

Scott's a grown man and CAN speak for himself. I am a moderator, and I speak for the forum. Everyone has an opinion, and all mature opinions are welcomed. I will remind you however of the terms of service that you should have read when you registered your user name. We pride ourselves on having a RESPECTFUL and INFORMATIVE forum. If you disrespect other members, you will be dealt with.

As far as a spun rod bearing.....absolutely no way would burning oil be a sign of a spun bearing. Loss of power and a **** of a racket in the lower engine would be. I would have to agree with X-15's opinion. Scott, your thoughts are welcome as always.

 

[twr]

Jeeze - talk about Off Topic a little!! BTW - I change my oil every 3000 miles. Why?? 1) I enjoy doing it 2) Gives me a chance to spot check things and look for any new leaks 3) My time is worth about $150 an hour too!!

 

[drivinhard]

"your engine running down the inerstate at 80 mph
with ac on and full power,you may see around 300 degrees oil temp around 1hr interval"

Hardly. Buzzing down the interstate in the dead of summer at 90-100mph will only get the oil temp to 170-180ish. On a hot day at the track, running near redline I can only get about 210 max (the oil cooler stabilizes the oil and coolant pretty much equal, both run about 210 max). Cooler ambient 60 and 70 degree days, 200 is about the norm for water and oil.

mark

 

[yamapowered]

X-15 I would like to reply to your statement

yamahapowered, if saving money to you sounds better compared to blowing up a motor, you have problems and should'nt have bought the SHO

if you personally had a engine go south due to
synthetic oil, then I would be weary of sythentics,
on the other hand, if your simply making light
of something your friend or friends say , dont
you think you could of been mistaken?
the shear fact that hundreds of reasons for the engine going south cant be blamed soley on engine
oil.
I know a few guys that put in synthetic oil in a poor maintained engine and the engine expired,
all blame was on the oil, instead of the root
of the problem, now they are synthetic haters for life.
if you add a quality oil in a mechanically sound engine, you will have positive results, with proper maintanence,

just cause Joe Bob at the gas station said
sythentic wrecked his engine dont mean he is accurate in what he says.

what I dont get is if a quality dino oil is
so good, then why is it making sludge in your
engine at only 3k?

thats tho only reason I changed out to sythentic
5 yrs ago, I made the choice due to the fact
that I have seen what lack of maintanence does
to an engine, I have had 15 years mechanical
experience, racing, street cars,
I own a number of Ford cars that I enjoy
modifying, the crazy money I spend in the
drivetrain over the years, has forced me to find
a better oil, when I was 20 yrs of age I had changed the oil in my 67 mustang fsbk with 428,
to fina 40w oil, I went out in the street and made
4 or 5 passes with fresh oil, and the motor spun
a bearing, I had learned my lesson from that
experience. I still have the mustang too,
I just wanted to share my views here since the
subject comes up often,
I did bash dino oil
with a vengance,
simply cause I dont accept
the fact that every 3 weeks
I have to change oil and filter,
I drive around 25k a year and
I simply dont have time to play
oil can here, and I will add
I have my own 5000 sq ft garage,
I store my cars and junk in,
I have had lots of fun with
cars here and plan on lots more.

 

[billh]

ricksmol:
Would a motor with a spun rod bearing produce large amounts of smoke coming from the exhaust, without any knocking noise from the engine?

My motor recently started to smoke quite heavily. I have replaced all 24 valve seals and am waiting for a cam chain tensioner to finish the job. The motor did not make any noise with the exception of a chain rustle (which I found out to be from a worn tensioner pad)and ran quite well.

I am thinking ahead that if the motor still smokes after this maybe a spun rod bearing? ...which seems to be quite common from what I read. The engine has 88K I have had it since new and religiously changed the oil and filter every 3K. When I opened it up the cylinder heads are clean as new. The valve seals that I took out are worn and brittle, but the valve guides are nice and snug. So I will keep my fingers crossed that it will not smoke anymore, but just in case I wanted to find out about the rod bearings.

Rick

Rick
To attempt to answer your question from someone who has had experience with spun rod bearings, the short answer is "maybe". When rod bearings spin, in short order there is a BUNCH of clearance between the connecting rods and the crankshaft. It is possible for the extra clearance to allow the pistons to hit the cylinder heads, pinching the ring groves, and thus making it impossible to control oil. HOWEVER by the time this happens, the engine is making so much noise from rods not just knocking, but HAMMERING that there would be no way to mistake it for anything but pending engine destruction. If you really want to know what's going on inside of your engine, remove the oil filter and cut the top off. Remove the filter element and cut the ends off with a knife. Spread out the paper and look at it. If it's packed with bearing material, you have a bottom end problem.

As far as the oil war goes, IMHO, The best place for synthetic oil is inside jet engines, they don't have to deal with being started up, run for a short time and then shut off dead cold. Oil additives are best left on the shelf, it's been proven time and again that they are pretty much worthless. I will stick to the stuff that comes out of the ground and change it frequently.

 

[gosho89]

yamapowered
[QB]
I own a number of Ford cars that I enjoy
modifying, the crazy money I spend in the
drivetrain over the years, has forced me to find
a better oil, when I was 20 yrs of age I had changed the oil in my 67 mustang fsbk with 428,
to fina 40w oil, I went out in the street and made
4 or 5 passes with fresh oil, and the motor spun
a bearing, I had learned my lesson from that
experience.
QB]

I quess if you know so much about Fords in this case, FE engines (428cj) you would have been aware of the history of them spinning bearings due to the oiling system not the oil. I could recommend a good FE mod book to improve the oiling system if your interested, but then again your just going to fire back some unhelpfull information and statements that no one is interested in at this point. There are many of us on the forum that have been around the blue oval for many years.... so back off! It sounds like you've got some chip on your shoulder maybe you should find another forum that better suits you.

thumbs_u