Mixing e30 without a sensor

SeanDev

SHO Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
237
Reaction score
204
Location
46131
I'm just going to have to get a test kit or sensor so I know for certain my e blend. However, if the dw300c can potential add power by allowing e40 or e50 without having to change anything else like injectors... then the lpfp will definitely be my next addition. For the cost even if I only add 5 or 10 hp that's pretty decent return for the gain.
Test kit is way to go, I don't use a sensor either, but I do test the fuel. Ill use Mejer gas station as example, their 93 is always 8% but in winter their E85 goes to E75. Testing only takes a couple minutes. To me a sensor is late stage and will only tell you what you already have, where I want to know what I'm putting in. Fuel-it has an easy calculator to use on their app.
 

Lowrider1976

Grandma's grocerie getter
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
221
Reaction score
172
Location
New England
I’d just do the lpfp and cross it off the list
So me and a buddy did the dw300c install tonight. It is a direct fit for my 2010, and things went pretty well. Got everything cleaned up and reinstalled, started it... and it ran normal for about 2-3 minutes then just died. It would no longer start. You can hear the pump priming key on, engine turns over, but no fuel flow. We're thinking the fuel pump module decided to quit ironically enough right after having done this lol. Does this seem to be a reasonable possibility? Would the pump prime happen but not flow fuel in this scenario? Somewhat at a loss as to what we could have done wrong, especially when it ran for a solid 2 minutes just fine. Double checked everything possible without removing the pump assembly again, and physically verified no fuel by removing hose in the engine bay and putting it into a container. Please help me sho world? Lol
 

Ta2dResqr

SHO Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
545
Reaction score
470
Location
Central Ohio
So me and a buddy did the dw300c install tonight. It is a direct fit for my 2010, and things went pretty well. Got everything cleaned up and reinstalled, started it... and it ran normal for about 2-3 minutes then just died. It would no longer start. You can hear the pump priming key on, engine turns over, but no fuel flow. We're thinking the fuel pump module decided to quit ironically enough right after having done this lol. Does this seem to be a reasonable possibility? Would the pump prime happen but not flow fuel in this scenario? Somewhat at a loss as to what we could have done wrong, especially when it ran for a solid 2 minutes just fine. Double checked everything possible without removing the pump assembly again, and physically verified no fuel by removing hose in the engine bay and putting it into a container. Please help me sho world? Lol
While possible, I would be more likely to suspect a line came loose. Either way, the module needs to come out. Double-check all your work as it comes apart.
 

Lowrider1976

Grandma's grocerie getter
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
221
Reaction score
172
Location
New England
While possible, I would be more likely to suspect a line came loose. Either way, the module needs to come out. Double-check all your work as it comes apart.
Apparent I missed a word, I suspect the fuel pump control module? I feel what you're saying buddy but there's only one line in tank that could pop off at the bottom of the assembly and where it is a push on quick connect I find it hard to believe we didn't attach it well. It could be but I'm willing to try the control module first to save the time/ effort of pulling out the assembly again unless I have to.
 

Ta2dResqr

SHO Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
545
Reaction score
470
Location
Central Ohio
Apparent I missed a word, I suspect the fuel pump control module? I feel what you're saying buddy but there's only one line in tank that could pop off at the bottom of the assembly and where it is a push on quick connect I find it hard to believe we didn't attach it well. It could be but I'm willing to try the control module first to save the time/ effort of pulling out the assembly again unless I have to.
Maybe only 1 transfer line in the tank. There are multiple electrical lines, hose lines, etc. Were you having any issues prior to disassembling the pump module, modifying it, and reinstalling it? Not saying it is impossible to have another issue happen right after a modification, just saying in my experience it has usually been something small I overlooked, didn't get seated correctly, etc. Do you have any codes? A failed control module should trip a code.
 

Lowrider1976

Grandma's grocerie getter
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
221
Reaction score
172
Location
New England
Maybe only 1 transfer line in the tank. There are multiple electrical lines, hose lines, etc. Were you having any issues prior to disassembling the pump module, modifying it, and reinstalling it? Not saying it is impossible to have another issue happen right after a modification, just saying in my experience it has usually been something small I overlooked, didn't get seated correctly, etc. Do you have any codes? A failed control module should trip a code.
Thank you @Ta2dResqr. You were for the record correct. It wasn't anything that didn't get attached or a bad connection, but in fact something small. After rechecking all said connections well, and even trying the new control module, still no fuel. So we pulled the assembly again and rechecked everything there. All seems to be exactly as it should. I was puzzled. No codes the issue had to be in the tank right? So I begin to take apart the clips for the new fuel tank strainer/ filter that goes below the pump in the cup because discouraged we're thinking replace the pump we know is working. I notice there is a lose part in the assembly. Turns out the replacement fuel tank strainer/ filter that goes below the pump in the cup was slightly taller. Allowed the (pressure regulator?) Just below the upward hose to the top of the assembly to unseat with its o ring and be loose. Result, fuel pressure not building into the hose but just bubbling in the cup lol. So we returned the original filter(painful choice but only 22k miles of use after all and 5 day wait to get a new one from Ford via buying the whole assembly) reassembled and reinstalled. Boom working dw300c! :biggrin:

Moral of the story... even if a 2010-12 is drop in no physical mods needed upgrade to the dw300c, I would recommend having a new assembly on hand anyway for the proper strainer to be changed in tank. Sucks that's the only way to get one, but worth it to not have to potentially redo the work at a later time.
 

802SHO

Stock Cams
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
1,852
Reaction score
3,468
Location
Essex Junction Vermont
That is odd it didn’t seem to fit/was too long. With 22k miles on the original filter I wouldn’t worry at all about using it. I wonder if somehow they sent you the wrong filter.
 

Lowrider1976

Grandma's grocerie getter
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
221
Reaction score
172
Location
New England
That is odd it didn’t seem to fit/was too long. With 22k miles on the original filter I wouldn’t worry at all about using it. I wonder if somehow they sent you the wrong filter.
It was a proper match in dimensions except maybe 3/8" inch taller or a little less. Where the instructions say it covers multiple vehicles from Mitsubishi, Honda, the SHO and a couple others, my thought was it covers the majority of those and our cars likely aren't the majority? Hard to say, but I got it from one of the common vendors who handle sho parts. So if there was more than one option based on the filter I would have to assume they would stock and send the correct one.
 

802SHO

Stock Cams
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
1,852
Reaction score
3,468
Location
Essex Junction Vermont
It was a proper match in dimensions except maybe 3/8" inch taller or a little less. Where the instructions say it covers multiple vehicles from Mitsubishi, Honda, the SHO and a couple others, my thought was it covers the majority of those and our cars likely aren't the majority? Hard to say, but I got it from one of the common vendors who handle sho parts. So if there was more than one option based on the filter I would have to assume they would stock and send the correct one.
I’m wondering if the order was picked wrong from Deatschwerks. I was able to use the supplied filter with mine
 

yaycandy

Aerospace Engineer
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
2,055
Reaction score
1,357
Location
Hanover, PA
Ive been on E30 for awhile. My local pumps 93 octane is up to 10% ethanol and e85 is anywhere from 51%-85%. I use wallace racing calculator. My pumps near me usually test around 75% on e85. I put in 10% into the calculator on 93 octane and i put 75% on the e85. At 1/4 tank left i add in 5gallons of e85 and rest is 93. Calculator comes out to around e32. My ethanol sensor says around 28-32. Its pretty accurate. Brad has some knock sensor trick that it can adjust if its off a bit. Many logs within the last month or so and everything is great. He said it would be fine, it is. I was just worried and logged all the time. E20-E40 with logs and stock hpfp and all has been good. He got me at 13psi because fuel pressure with my new even larger intercooler (4th intercooler). Explorer st whipple intercooler. No crash bar. Still need hpfp one of these days
 

Lowrider1976

Grandma's grocerie getter
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
221
Reaction score
172
Location
New England
@802SHO could be, but how would I know? I mean it obviously wasn't right, but how where did it go wrong idk? Lol

@yaycandy the hpfp does very well even if your not running e30, but e30 with the hpfp is definitely well worth it even if it is pricey(still 18psi iirc). After I run the tank down a bit more I'll be doing some more logging with the e30 tune in the next couple of days to be certain as well. Testing my local 93 came in at 6% ethanol. Using the Wallace calculator I should be e31 using 1.75 gallons of vp c85 and 3.75 of the 93. Next up is a reische tstat that has been sitting here for about two weeks.
 

yaycandy

Aerospace Engineer
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
2,055
Reaction score
1,357
Location
Hanover, PA
@802SHO could be, but how would I know? I mean it obviously wasn't right, but how where did it go wrong idk? Lol

@yaycandy the hpfp does very well even if your not running e30, but e30 with the hpfp is definitely well worth it even if it is pricey(still 18psi iirc). After I run the tank down a bit more I'll be doing some more logging with the e30 tune in the next couple of days to be certain as well. Testing my local 93 came in at 6% ethanol. Using the Wallace calculator I should be e31 using 1.75 gallons of vp c85 and 3.75 of the 93. Next up is a reische tstat that has been sitting here for about two weeks.

I just put 10% in to the calculator, mine tested around 5%. Talking with my tuner, its safer to assume there is more ethanol in the 93 then there actually is. On my stock hpfp running less than e30 is better than being over e30. When i track my sho, i drain the gas tank and i have a 5 gallon vp can mixed to near perfect e30 added in and im pretty close to my local track.
I took a bit of a hit when i switched back to the motorcraft plug from the Brisk. Next weekend im going to be setup the same but with stock coils to see if there is a noticeable difference. I launch at the same rpm everytime. I found the digital one to be off a bit. On mine at least. I have an autometer analog rpm gauge jimmied up and it matches my timing light’s rpm teller so i go with analog gauge at launch so i can keep a constant rpm when comparing components. With very bad reaction time as i watch the rpm more than the tree
 
Last edited:

Ta2dResqr

SHO Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
545
Reaction score
470
Location
Central Ohio
Thank you @Ta2dResqr. You were for the record correct. It wasn't anything that didn't get attached or a bad connection, but in fact something small. After rechecking all said connections well, and even trying the new control module, still no fuel. So we pulled the assembly again and rechecked everything there. All seems to be exactly as it should. I was puzzled. No codes the issue had to be in the tank right? So I begin to take apart the clips for the new fuel tank strainer/ filter that goes below the pump in the cup because discouraged we're thinking replace the pump we know is working. I notice there is a lose part in the assembly. Turns out the replacement fuel tank strainer/ filter that goes below the pump in the cup was slightly taller. Allowed the (pressure regulator?) Just below the upward hose to the top of the assembly to unseat with its o ring and be loose. Result, fuel pressure not building into the hose but just bubbling in the cup lol. So we returned the original filter(painful choice but only 22k miles of use after all and 5 day wait to get a new one from Ford via buying the whole assembly) reassembled and reinstalled. Boom working dw300c! :biggrin:

Moral of the story... even if a 2010-12 is drop in no physical mods needed upgrade to the dw300c, I would recommend having a new assembly on hand anyway for the proper strainer to be changed in tank. Sucks that's the only way to get one, but worth it to not have to potentially redo the work at a later time.
Glad it is fixed. Hate when something small like that has you racking your brain and redoing work.
 

RickyRecon

Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2022
Messages
66
Reaction score
51
Location
Northwest Indiana
I use this http://www.wallaceracing.com/ethanol-mix-calc.php and my fuel trims hold good from e30 to e40 just fine. keep track of your fuel pressure.
What is good? Meaning, “I’m ok so long as I’m above ****psi?” I’m on the stock hpfp (for now) and only throw 2 gallons…2.5 max, in an otherwise full tank of 93, so I’m sure being around e14-e18 ish isn’t going to be an issue, but I’d still like to know what to monitor for (JIC).

I don’t really NEED to add it. For one, I’m not certain, but pretty sure my AO tune has an upper octane limit (which I’m trying to rub up against) it will adjust for, which I would guess is 94-95. Secondly, my oar stays pegged at -0.96 and rarely ever get positive knock above +1 with just the 93 alone. Occasionally it will spike to +2-2.25 for a split second then drop back down. Plenty of -4 readings as well. That being said, idk if it’s a placebo effect or not, but on the occasions when I throw in the corn, the butt dyno says it pulls harder. Even when heat soaked to +\-150

Sorry for the probably eye roll worthy noob question, but I’m learning as I go here haha
 
Last edited:

ridered74

SHO Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
993
Reaction score
1,303
What is good? Meaning, “I’m ok so long as I’m above ****psi?” I’m on the stock hpfp (for now) and only throw 2 gallons…2.5 max, in an otherwise full tank of 93, so I’m sure being around e14-e18 ish isn’t going to be an issue, but I’d still like to know what to monitor for (JIC).

I probably don’t NEED to. For one, I’m not certain, but pretty sure my AO tune has an upper octane limit it will adjust for(I would assume 94-95). Secondly, my oar stays pegged at -0.96 and rarely ever get positive knock above +1 with just the 93 alone. Occasionally it will spike to +2-2.25 for a split second then drop back down. Plenty of -4 readings as well. That being said, idk if it’s a placebo effect or not, but on the occasions when I throw in the corn, the butt dyno says it pulls harder. Even when heat soaked to +\-150

Sorry for the probably eye roll worthy noob question, but I’m learning as I go here haha

Opinions vary wildly on that from one tuner to another. Generally on WOT you don't want to see lower than 1600 psi. That isn't really where it gets dangerous but it's a good sign your pump is having trouble keeping up.
 

RickyRecon

Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2022
Messages
66
Reaction score
51
Location
Northwest Indiana
Opinions vary wildly on that from one tuner to another. Generally on WOT you don't want to see lower than 1600 psi. That isn't really where it gets dangerous but it's a good sign your pump is having trouble keeping up.
Right on, thanks. The lowest I’ve SEEN (briefly) at WOT is around 1990psi (13.45Mpa). So looks like it’s sitting pretty with my meager blend. Not surprising, but good to know what to keep an eye for. Much appreciated.
 
Last edited:

SM105K

Streetlight Grand Prix Champ/ IG @fafomotorsports
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
5,949
Reaction score
7,224
Location
Arizona
It is the slow pressure dip on the HPFP that sticks injectors open.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
103,766
Messages
1,144,626
Members
13,604
Latest member
erasethegrey

Members online

Top