Mixing e30 without a sensor

Lowrider1976

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Ok SHO world I've got a question. Is it better to have over e30 if your exact blend % is unknown or what's the best way to err on the side of caution? My e85 is exactly 85 where I'm using vp fuel, but my 93 could vary, and it's up to 10% ethanol based on pump standards. My logical thought is that being over is definitely better than under. What do you all do if or when you didn't have a sensor?
 

SM105K

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I don't run a sensor. I do test my E products at the pump whenever I get fuel. However, that is usually only once a month...lol. However, I use a E30 calculator and I really don't worry about the E content in the 91 I mix it with.
 

Lowrider1976

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I use this http://www.wallaceracing.com/ethanol-mix-calc.php and my fuel trims hold good from e30 to e40 just fine. keep track of your fuel pressure.
I'm using that same calculator! Thanks 76fomoco, the concern is that GH said I'm showing some "decent drops in fuel pressure after shifts". I should be between e30 and e36 based on the calculator. Not sure how concerned I should be about this. Stock lpfp but only 23k miles
 

76FoMoCo

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Interesting I suffered the same thing at first but Matt found that the SCT fuel tables were not putting into the calculation he had them amend it and it fixed the problem for me.
 

Lowrider1976

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Very interesting indeed. It was suggested to send a recent 93 tune file to compare. I bet that will be the next step then if/ when that log proves to be in good order. Since it's a rainy evening here that'll have to wait for tomorrow, which will scrub tomorrow nights plans for heading the track though.
 

802SHO

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Personally I’d go to the track anyway, use up the VP E85 in my tank where it counts. Do the 93 “check over” later. You’ve got the XDI35 and 100% meth injection. You’re OAR is -.96….you’ve got fuel and you’ve got spark.

Ive ran stock HPFP, stock lpfp, stock injectors with 93 and 100% meth and a dry 75 shot of nitrous and 15 miles to E at the drag strip and I never ran out of fuel.

Checking 93 is less about safety and more about preference….preferring to see a magic number. Don’t halt your plans, run the 93 test later. And order a DW300C lpfp.

If it were me ^^^^. Just sayn 5C21DFA4 0081 4F26 81C6 49F7BC427D62
 

802SHO

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You might be closer to E40-E45. 93 in Vermont is supposed to be 10% ethanol and every time I mixed for E40 I always tested my batch at home and it was always E50. If you’re concerned, add half a gallon or a gallon max of 93 to your tank. But what he wants you to do is kind of unnecessary. Why go back to looking at 93….hasn’t he already looked at 93 logs? I think he needs to look at more E30 logs so send him a couple data logs of your E30 1/4 runs at the track!!!!

I remember when I got a “track” tune from Brad….and when I told him after I’d been dailying it….you have? Yeah? Well it looks good, let’s add another psi of boost!! Send it brother
 

Lowrider1976

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I didn't have much e30 left last night, and already swapped back to 93 for the trip to the track where it is 150+miles away. I didn't want to waste e30 just to travel there, when I have to use vp fuel. My last log for 93 was around 7 months ago, so I feel he's just doing his due diligence to ensure it's not a mechanical fault. I think @76FoMoCo is on to the real cause for the situation.
Plus 3 out 4 people that wanted to go couldn't make it. So I'm just going to be patient about it.
@802SHO do you think the dw300c is worth while if I'm only using e30 at the track? It will only be run at Temps above say 45 degrees. I know it can hurt and isn't terribly expensive but from what I've read in the forum I got the impression that it really becomes needed when running into lower Temps for those that use e30 year round.
 

Ta2dResqr

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Sorry to thread jack but, If you are using canned fuel, why not use E98 or E100? I am not familiar with how VP names their products so I looked at Sunoco. E98 is about $0.20 cheaper per gallon. For a 19 gallon fuel tank, it takes about 1 gallon less of E98 to get an E30 mixture. Works out to about $8.75 per tank savings.
 

802SHO

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I didn't have much e30 left last night, and already swapped back to 93 for the trip to the track where it is 150+miles away. I didn't want to waste e30 just to travel there, when I have to use vp fuel. My last log for 93 was around 7 months ago, so I feel he's just doing his due diligence to ensure it's not a mechanical fault. I think @76FoMoCo is on to the real cause for the situation.
Plus 3 out 4 people that wanted to go couldn't make it. So I'm just going to be patient about it.
@802SHO do you think the dw300c is worth while if I'm only using e30 at the track? It will only be run at Temps above say 45 degrees. I know it can hurt and isn't terribly expensive but from what I've read in the forum I got the impression that it really becomes needed when running into lower Temps for those that use e30 year round.
I’d just do the lpfp and cross it off the list
 

Lowrider1976

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Sorry to thread jack but, If you are using canned fuel, why not use E98 or E100? I am not familiar with how VP names their products so I looked at Sunoco. E98 is about $0.20 cheaper per gallon. For a 19 gallon fuel tank, it takes about 1 gallon less of E98 to get an E30 mixture. Works out to about $8.75 per tank savings.
No worries, vp doesn't make anything higher than 85 and I couldn't find sunoco around where I live. Even then once in dialed in, I don't intend to use e30 except track days really. So what would I save $2 bucks when I make 5 gallons for the track? I'm not going to even take the time searching for it at that point, but I appreciate you trying to save me a little cash man.
 

Lowrider1976

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I'm just going to have to get a test kit or sensor so I know for certain my e blend. However, if the dw300c can potential add power by allowing e40 or e50 without having to change anything else like injectors... then the lpfp will definitely be my next addition. For the cost even if I only add 5 or 10 hp that's pretty decent return for the gain.
 

ridered74

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I'm just going to have to get a test kit or sensor so I know for certain my e blend. However, if the dw300c can potential add power by allowing e40 or e50 without having to change anything else like injectors... then the lpfp will definitely be my next addition. For the cost even if I only add 5 or 10 hp that's pretty decent return for the gain.

I never ran upgraded LPFP and my car was up to 87k miles when I sold it. If you have money for the pump, it would be better spent on the ethanol sensor so you know exactly what your mix is IMHO.
 

FiveLeeter918

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The Fuel-It sensor is cheap insurance, but that said the PCM can trim for up to a 20% adjustment in octane, so just keep an eye on your LTFTs. It's good to know where they are on 93, then when you load your E30 tune they SHOULD stay the same if your calculations are correct, and then as you refill you can watch them and as it fluctuates you can see +/- what your ethanol content variation is.

That being said, your tuner does need to alter your stoich values to be for E30. If they relay on the fuel trims alone to modify for E30 (which some do) this theory goes out the window.
 

Lowrider1976

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So I bought a fuel it test kit. Used it for the first time tonight and accidently spilled it. Washed and the thing out, dried it, then tried again. This time I knocked it over and it landed on a vp fuel can and shattered. Ethanol content of 93 in my area still unknown lol. A little disappointed in how delicate that was. There should be a cheap plastic base to set it in so it's more stable imo. I guess I'll order another and make a little stand for it. Any other test kits better out there?
 

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