Misfire 4 5 6

[SeanDev]

I've spent last hour looking threw past threads and seen where a couple had same issue as me, unfortunately they never posted update to problem. Under hard acceleration I get misfire on 4 5 6, I've changed all plugs, new set of OEM coils, still have issue with 4,5,6 plus random misfire code. I run a dw300 and XDI-EVO and PPE DPs, all less than 6 months old. She idles fine and cruises no problem, and no change in MPG, Any suggestions?

 

[Ta2dResqr]

Fuel trim? O2 sensor readings just before, during, and after the event? How are your injectors? My misfire ended up being an injector issue.

 

[SeanDev]

Going to data log it and force the misfire. If I let off gas, just 4 is affected, if I delay release of pedal I get 4 5 6. This might be one for the dealer. And I'll send Brad log and see if he sees anything. I've have dealt with misfires but never a whole bank before. I even had a bad ECM create Chaos but that was because a coil sent power back to ECM.

 

[SeanDev]

Fuel trim? O2 sensor readings just before, during, and after the event? How are your injectors? My misfire ended up being an injector issue.

I'm thinking of changing o2 next, maybe residuals from PPE DPs Being broke in coated the o2. All guesses on my end. Did see in a post from @yaycandy that he had a VVT cause a similar issue. But I'm only at 55,000 miles I wasn't expecting this. Course she wasn't expecting to be modified either . Sucks , she is scheduled for her engine build in just a couple months.

 

[SeanDev]

Well all dealers around me are 4-6 weeks before they can look at car. Maybe brad can solve this puzzle. And was informed due to vehicle being modified and even returned to stock, no Ford dealer will touch it.

 

[Ta2dResqr]

I'm surprised they won't touch it. Not surprised they would say that it is not covered by a warranty and will not have a warranty on any work they do. I think a datalog or even better the datastream from a scan tool when the misfire occurs would be very helpful. Looking at O2 mixtures during the misfire should help. If it goes rich, it is most likely a spark issue. Failure to spark, spark blowout, etc. If it goes lean, you are more looking at injector issues. Pattern, failure to fire, duration, etc. When my injectors went, it was cylinder 2 most of the time and random with 1 and 3. Not sure if it was because they are all on the same rail or what. I ended up having 2 bad injectors when I had them flow tested.

 

[yaycandy]

Are you low on oil? Vvt solenoid is ran by oil. So when my first engine lost compression and i was having fun with it. When it would get low on oil. One or both banks would have misfires at mid to high rpm.
Easy to get to. Take valve cover off and its on the passenger side of the head. Well at least the back half was, dont remember if the front half was. Its plugged in through the valve cover so you can see the plug. See how the plug look. Maybe goop goop it, shes likes goop goop.
Has a screen around it also, i wouldnt think it would be blocked up by todays oil and low miles but anything can happen. Maybe its not working. Maybe its something completely else. My money is on it not being the vvt solenoid. And something else

 

[SeanDev]

Are you low on oil? Vvt solenoid is ran by oil. So when my first engine lost compression and i was having fun with it. When it would get low on oil. One or both banks would have misfires at mid to high rpm.
Easy to get to. Take valve cover off and its on the passenger side of the head. Well at least the back half was, dont remember if the front half was. Its plugged in through the valve cover so you can see the plug. See how the plug look. Maybe goop goop it, shes likes goop goop.
Has a screen around it also, i wouldnt think it would be blocked up by todays oil and low miles but anything can happen. Maybe its not working. Maybe its something completely else. My money is on it not being the vvt solenoid. And something else

Had fresh oil change, checked stick and she is at the top of the cross hair. Going to go in and go ahead and replace solenoid. Replaced o2 today, did a reset, first hard acceleration and she misfired.

I'm surprised they won't touch it. Not surprised they would say that it is not covered by a warranty and will not have a warranty on any work they do. I think a datalog or even better the datastream from a scan tool when the misfire occurs would be very helpful. Looking at O2 mixtures during the misfire should help. If it goes rich, it is most likely a spark issue. Failure to spark, spark blowout, etc. If it goes lean, you are more looking at injector issues. Pattern, failure to fire, duration, etc. When my injectors went, it was cylinder 2 most of the time and random with 1 and 3. Not sure if it was because they are all on the same rail or what. I ended up having 2 bad injectors when I had them flow tested.

 

[SeanDev]

I'm surprised they won't touch it. Not surprised they would say that it is not covered by a warranty and will not have a warranty on any work they do. I think a datalog or even better the datastream from a scan tool when the misfire occurs would be very helpful. Looking at O2 mixtures during the misfire should help. If it goes rich, it is most likely a spark issue. Failure to spark, spark blowout, etc. If it goes lean, you are more looking at injector issues. Pattern, failure to fire, duration, etc. When my injectors went, it was cylinder 2 most of the time and random with 1 and 3. Not sure if it was because they are all on the same rail or what. I ended up having 2 bad injectors when I had them flow tested. Injector issues I agree with, every Ford I've owned, seems like if one thing goes bad it shows up as multiple issues.

I replaced the 02 first. Didn't work, going to replace vvt solonoid. Going to check datastream today and datalog for Brad. I even offered to spend a day and return to stock, all three dealers still declined. Haven't used forscan in awhile, but if I remember it can look at datastream.

 

[SeanDev]

Thanks again for your all's help. When this is solved, I'll let everyone know what issue was, maybe when others have this fluke, the answer will help other SHO owners. I'm starting to lean injector issue myself. Maybe all that E30, loosened up some gump and sent it into my injection system. If one is bad, car will get all new injectors.

 

[SeanDev]

I replaced the 02 first. Didn't work, going to replace vvt solonoid. Going to check datastream today and datalog for Brad. I even offered to spend a day and return to stock, all three dealers still declined.

And I agree, one issue showing up as multiple issues, the Ford fluke . But she always starts at misfire on 4 first, so that injector could be my culprit.

 

[yaycandy]

Had fresh oil change, checked stick and she is at the top of the cross hair. Going to go in and go ahead and replace solenoid. Replaced o2 today, did a reset, first hard acceleration and she misfired.

Put factory map sensor back on top of intake. A bank misfiring wouldnt be an injector. Also they have tons of sensitive codes. Front map sensor would make the wrench light. Id put the oem map sensor on to see if it different before tearing into the vvt solenoid. Alot easier stuff to cross off still.
Sometimes the best things are to unplug some sensors to get it into a failsafe mode without sensor input. I wouldnt unplug the map sensor though.

 

[SeanDev]

I'm surprised they won't touch it. Not surprised they would say that it is not covered by a warranty and will not have a warranty on any work they do. I think a datalog or even better the datastream from a scan tool when the misfire occurs would be very helpful. Looking at O2 mixtures during the misfire should help. If it goes rich, it is most likely a spark issue. Failure to spark, spark blowout, etc. If it goes lean, you are more looking at injector issues. Pattern, failure to fire, duration, etc. When my injectors went, it was cylinder 2 most of the time and random with 1 and 3. Not sure if it was because they are all on the same rail or what. I ended up having 2 bad injectors when I had them flow tested.

Appreciate all the information, any and everything is a help. I got around to logging her today and going to send it off to Brad for a second set of eyes. He is puzzled as much as I am. Last resort is put OEM HPFP back on, return everything to stock and see if problem is still there. For the heck of it I swapped my injectors around and still had a 4 5 6 misfire. Im 40hrs in, all new coils,plugs,battery, and new o2s pre cats. And I think it's time to hit the bar, and get her off my mind. Last resort is get her all back to stock, keep my mouth shut and drop her off at a Ford dealer that doesn't know me.

 

[SHOdded]

how did the old plugs look? earlier gen had some issues with plug well seals/valve cover gasket leaks. no ford bulletins, just an owner discovery.

i dont think this is the issue but ... if you are injecting methanol, airflow is not even across the cylinders, so if you don't direct inject each port, you could end up with imbalances.

 

[SeanDev]

how did the old plugs look? earlier gen had some issues with plug well seals/valve cover gasket leaks. no ford bulletins, just an owner discovery.

i dont think this is the issue but ... if you are injecting methanol, airflow is not even across the cylinders, so if you don't direct inject each port, you could end up with imbalances.

Old plugs looked great, all six at 17,000 miles of use were from .029 to .028. I used ruthenium plugs. Should have taken a pic, NSK wasn't selling snake oil, the tip and ground straps looked brand new. With menthol I've been using it for over a year, only using a 370cc nozzle, and Brad has it tuned not to learn from meth use. New battery, coils, plugs, switched to iridium, precat o2s, map sensors cleaned throttle body cleaned. And replaced all injectors, OEM. Under hard acceleration, I now have a 1 2 3 misfire. 4-6 not affected. These 1-3 misfires occurred while I was not under load, something is failing and using forscan and logging with sct. One thing appeared that surprised me was a big dip from EVO and that surprised me. Unit is only 6 months old, but still sending both logs to Brad. I did buy the EVO from him. Unsure if it's the EVO or DW300. Was very strange to have 4-6 with multiple misfires, now last two incidents have 1-3 misfires. Only thing I haven't done is swap HPFP back to stock, 3bar to 2bar, return to stock tune, and see what happens. And see where it goes from here. This has been the hardest puzzle for a car I've ever dealt with . Even ran tank to empty of E30 and loaded 93 tune. Bam misfires again.

 

[Ta2dResqr]

What are you using to connect for ForScan? If you are using OBDLink, check out there app/program. They have a huge extended library of PIDs. If you need help finding the Enhanced PIDs shoot me a message. You should be able to see a lot of information on fuel pressures, misfires, fuel trims, etc. I still think seeing if it goes lean or rich during a misfire will help tell you which direction to head.

 

[SHOdded]

if the misfires are switching banks, not occurring in both banks, i would think possibly oxygen sensors are worth a look, but you changed all 4 right?

i know there have been tuning issues with DW injectors, not sure on fuel pump. same with XDI. thing is, neither fuel pump controls flow cylinder by cylinder or bank by bank. at best you could call out the fuel rail - presence of debris or foreign material.

knock has been known to be caused by chafing of the knock sensor wiring, and it has happened on 2013+ as well, tho ford bulletins are for 2010-2012.

you must be logging since you are tuned with Brad?

 

[SeanDev]

What are you using to connect for ForScan? If you are using OBDLink, check out there app/program. They have a huge extended library of PIDs. If you need help finding the Enhanced PIDs shoot me a message. You should be able to see a lot of information on fuel pressures, misfires, fuel trims, etc. I still think seeing if it goes lean or rich during a misfire will help tell you which direction to head.

I'm using obdlink

if the misfires are switching banks, not occurring in both banks, i would think possibly oxygen sensors are worth a look, but you changed all 4 right?

i know there have been tuning issues with DW injectors, not sure on fuel pump. same with XDI. thing is, neither fuel pump controls flow cylinder by cylinder or bank by bank. at best you could call out the fuel rail - presence of debris or foreign material.

knock has been known to be caused by chafing of the knock sensor wiring, and it has happened on 2013+ as well, tho ford bulletins are for 2010-2012.

you must be logging since you are tuned with Brad?

Thanks for reply, yes I've changed all precat o2s. I should change after cats too, since PPE install, maybe the break in affected them. The 1-3 misfire was the worst and I wasn't even under load. All codes are for misfires only. I replaced my injectors with OEM. I'm wondering if my DW300 install might have eventually sent debris to the EVO. The EVO and LPFP where changed at same time. She idles great, and I got 24.5 mpg on hwy running 93 tune. I ran my tank down on a whim maybe I got bad gas, but E30 to 93 and the misfire was there. I'm bad at reading logs, so I'm going to due forscan logging and due a log from sct to laptop using livelink And send both to Brad. After logs, going back to stock tune, stock hpfp, and 2bar, leave the DW300 and see what happens. Happens again then swapping LPFP back to stock and see if there is a change
And I'll message you on how to do enhanced with forscan.

 

[SeanDev]

if the misfires are switching banks, not occurring in both banks, i would think possibly oxygen sensors are worth a look, but you changed all 4 right?

i know there have been tuning issues with DW injectors, not sure on fuel pump. same with XDI. thing is, neither fuel pump controls flow cylinder by cylinder or bank by bank. at best you could call out the fuel rail - presence of debris or foreign material.

knock has been known to be caused by chafing of the knock sensor wiring, and it has happened on 2013+ as well, tho ford bulletins are for 2010-2012.

you must be logging since you are tuned with Brad?

I'll look at that wiring tomorrow, I know knock will limp engine. Never came to mind to actually look at it. Thanks again, any advice helps me try to get her back to normal. And only changed precat, going to do after cats, never thought to look at them.

 

[SeanDev]

I've had these pumps now installed 6 months, why I was thrown off, but an log during a misfire , and being honest I'm bad with reading logs, but noticed a sharp drop with EVO, but believe that to engine limping and was cutting duel.