How to make an efficient engine

[gmail]

45 to 50 MPG all the time in a midsized car is "not that good"?

yeah the newer ones get that when you drive like a girl.. you try and drive it like any normal car with even a tiny set of nuts the mileage goes to ****....

it still dont impress me... **** what the chevy cruize is turbo and gets 42 mpg no batteries to go bad and cost more then the car new. also has more sack.

i remember like 3 years ago reading a car mag in auto zone about the 1982 project saturn chevy made with over 100 mpg

heres a link to what someone else posted.

http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg07343.html

now i wouldnt go out buying it because it got such good fuel mileage...
what im getting at is **** toyota and **** hybrid. they cant seem to ever get that mileage but yet people buy cars like this because they will do anything advertisement tells them.

sorry jello im not trying to attack you by this

 

[Shoaz]

I love these threads.

1) magnets, but that's already been mentioned
2) The Tornado for the intake.
3) Splitfire spark plugs, if you can find some.
4) Acetone! There's a long thread here somewhere about how acetone is a sure-fire, guaranteed method to increase your fuel economy. The guy was all set to go take a bunch of scientific data and was gonna report back. That was months ago, so I'm guessing he should be back any minute now.

OR

Just maintain the car well. It is not unusual for a STOCK well maintained V6 SHO to get low-to-mid 30s mpg on highway trips. I routinely got low 30s in my silver car (3.0) and even a tank cruising at 80mph that got 36mpg.

FWIW, some experimentation when the car was new and I was taking regular road trips with friends revealed that we all (94 T/A, 95 Mustang 5.0L, 95 3.0L SHO) got the best cruising economy at about 80mph.

So it's pretty efficient from the factory and if maintained well. I think you'll have a hard time making significant improvements on that.

 

[gmail]

gotta love ash in the sig

 

[SHOtime2511]

God I hate Ralph Nader.

 

[gmail]

God I hate Ralph Nader.

sorry you lost me

 

[doclees]

I love these threads.

1) magnets, but that's already been mentioned
2) The Tornado for the intake.
3) Splitfire spark plugs, if you can find some.
4) Acetone! There's a long thread here somewhere about how acetone is a sure-fire, guaranteed method to increase your fuel economy. The guy was all set to go take a bunch of scientific data and was gonna report back. That was months ago, so I'm guessing he should be back any minute now.

OR

Just maintain the car well. It is not unusual for a STOCK well maintained V6 SHO to get low-to-mid 30s mpg on highway trips. I routinely got low 30s in my silver car (3.0) and even a tank cruising at 80mph that got 36mpg.

FWIW, some experimentation when the car was new and I was taking regular road trips with friends revealed that we all (94 T/A, 95 Mustang 5.0L, 95 3.0L SHO) got the best cruising economy at about 80mph.

So it's pretty efficient from the factory and if maintained well. I think you'll have a hard time making significant improvements on that.

36mph at 80mph??? Must have been ETOH free gas? Running from a 30mph wind? I'd do 80 on the back roads if it got me 36mph. If this is real and reproducible and not just a math error what else can you tell me? Any mods, tires, tire pressure? This is why I need a copy of http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/396/curvem.png for the SHO.
So what is happening at 80mph that makes it more efficient than 65? Bringing us back on project topic of a RWD, 2000# donor car. So one would think that breaking the 40mpg mark with 1000#+/- less weight and dialed in gearing is very doable.

 

[luigisho]

sorry you lost me

This whole thread lost me. It's a big fat sedan with a high revving motor. Get a Geo Metro or a Segway and call it a day.

 

[SHOtime2511]

sorry you lost me

He was a big 55mph limp wrist back in the day.

 

[doclees]

This whole thread lost me. It's a big fat sedan with a high revving motor. Get a Geo Metro or a Segway and call it a day.

You slept a lot in class didn't you? The post is about making, or now also running, the SHO engine at optimal fuel efficiency without sacrificing reliability or major performance. This is NOT about making the SHO engine in the Taurus body a gas sipper. To some extent it isn't even about the cost of the change. If you said " Add headers and true duel exhaust to gain 30 HP and no loss in mpgs", I'd say that was an improvement in efficiency. If you said "swap out the cams for less aggressive cams to lose 10 hp but gain 10 mpg average" I'd say that was an improvement in efficiency. Yes I would like to put my extra engine in a 2000# RWD car and get 40+ on the highway but still have at least the performance I have in the Taurus.

 

[jelloslug]

yeah the newer ones get that when you drive like a girl.. you try and drive it like any normal car with even a tiny set of nuts the mileage goes to ****....

it still dont impress me... **** what the chevy cruize is turbo and gets 42 mpg no batteries to go bad and cost more then the car new. also has more sack.

i remember like 3 years ago reading a car mag in auto zone about the 1982 project saturn chevy made with over 100 mpg

heres a link to what someone else posted.

http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg07343.html

now i wouldnt go out buying it because it got such good fuel mileage...
what im getting at is **** toyota and **** hybrid. they cant seem to ever get that mileage but yet people buy cars like this because they will do anything advertisement tells them.

sorry jello im not trying to attack you by this

Well I hate to break it to you but you are wrong. My wife has 50k on her '08 and I can tell you that she does not drive "like a girl". The life time average for it so far is right around 48 MPG. I have driven it from South Carolina to Orlando with the cruise control set at 70 the entire way and it got 51 MPG on the way down and 48 on the way back up. As for the Cruise, did you fail to notice that it gets a whopping 28 in the city? You can hate the Prius all you want but don't just make stuff up because Top Gear and South Park said to.

 

[rubydist]

to the OP:

it is not as simple as just lowering the engine rpms to get better mileage. the whole thing is a complex equation of all of these factors: engine efficiency map, gearing, vehicle rolling and aerodynamic resistance, heaviness of drivers right foot (both accelerating and braking), rolling resistance of tires, etc.

changing gearing to lower engine rpm at cruising can lower mileage if that moves operation to a place on the engine efficiency map that does not match well with the total resistance of moving the vehicle at whatever highway speed you use. if you look at the torque curve of the SHO motor, you will see that below 2500 rpm the torque falls off quite quickly, therefore it is likely that the engine's efficiency at 1800 rpm will not be matched to the vehicle resistance such that you would get good mileage.

to Shoaz:
I have done extensive testing with acetone, and if we could still get non-oxygenated gasoline, it would definitely improve mileage. however, virtually all gas now has ethanol in it, and that offsets nearly all of the acetone gains in terms of mileage. I also have learned that acetone is the best injector cleaner I've found - 5 oz per tank for 2-3 tanks will make a big difference in how the injectors work. (just make sure you don't spill the acetone - its a great paint remover!)

 

[doclees]

You can rightfully praise the technology in the Prius all day long. It is still fugly.

 

[doclees]

Thanks Rubydist, This is just what I need to keep in mind. Also on the Acetone, safe to use?
I'm gong for 70 ish for optimal highway speed. So if Shoaz got 36 at 80 maybe I should try leaving it in 4th on the highway and see what happens.
P.S. Cartman rules!

 

[gmail]

Well I hate to break it to you but you are wrong. My wife has 50k on her '08 and I can tell you that she does not drive "like a girl". The life time average for it so far is right around 48 MPG. I have driven it from South Carolina to Orlando with the cruise control set at 70 the entire way and it got 51 MPG on the way down and 48 on the way back up. As for the Cruise, did you fail to notice that it gets a whopping 28 in the city? You can hate the Prius all you want but don't just make stuff up because Top Gear and South Park said to.

im starting to notice no matter what i say someone gets offended.... so what the **** here goes.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2006/10/prius_mileage_1.html

thats not the only time i have heard of stuff like that...
ok so you got this mpg according to the little on board mpg monitor... im proud of you. you have made buying this POS worth wild to you.

its still the fact that this hybrid b.s the government has been making a big deal over worthless. there has been many american cars over the years that have gotten better or the same fuel mileage as these hybrids. not to mention they dont carry a battery that could power 3 homes and cost more then the price of a new car to replace. o and its more crap to go wrong. o and it have enough volts to **** someone in the event of a car accident...
yeah when i was towing we got flyers all the time about how to deal with the hybrids in accidents.

i know someone is gonna say you found that on the internet that link is bs its someones opinion.... well there not much that isnt on the internet so why does that make everything wrong?

i found this on the internet written by a normal person also does it make it wrong?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity



k sorry for the rant i guess back to the topic

 

[jelloslug]

im starting to notice no matter what i say someone gets offended.... so what the **** here goes.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2006/10/prius_mileage_1.html

thats not the only time i have heard of stuff like that...
ok so you got this mpg according to the little on board mpg monitor... im proud of you. you have made buying this POS worth wild to you.

its still the fact that this hybrid b.s the government has been making a big deal over worthless. there has been many american cars over the years that have gotten better or the same fuel mileage as these hybrids. not to mention they dont carry a battery that could power 3 homes and cost more then the price of a new car to replace. o and its more crap to go wrong. o and it have enough volts to **** someone in the event of a car accident...
yeah when i was towing we got flyers all the time about how to deal with the hybrids in accidents.

i know someone is gonna say you found that on the internet that link is bs its someones opinion.... well there not much that isnt on the internet so why does that make everything wrong?

i found this on the internet written by a normal person also does it make it wrong?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity



k sorry for the rant i guess back to the topic

What's wrong with you? Did a Prius run over your toe this morning? The simple fact is that if it did not do what it said it would do why would they be on the 3rd generation of it? I bet you did not bother to read the comments on that artical were everyone that actually owns one (not just drive it for a few days) is saying the same thing as myself. It does get 45 to 50 and the new ones get better. It's obvious that you have never driven one, let alone know anything more about them than what you want to here. As for the battery, did you know that every car is carrying enough explosive volatile liquid that just a single errant spark would make it explode? And as for the battery costing more and a new car to replace? It's more like about $2k for a new one (http://www.trademotion.com/partloca...rius&year=2008&catalogid=1&displayCatalogid=0) and just a few hundred for a used one, go check ebay on that. They are so cheap used because no one ever needs to change it. In fact the warranty for the hybrid components is 150k miles or 10 years. More crap to go wrong you say? There is no starter, no power steering pump, no alternator, no smog pump, the A/C compressor is electric and on the new ones the water pump is even electric. The transmission has no pumps or valves and is fully water cooled. An oil change is 3 quarts (with the filter) and a full transmission fluid change is 4 quarts (every 100k miles). The brake pads usually last about 100k miles because over 7 MPH the drive motor does all the braking unless it's a panic stop.

 

[doclees]

What's wrong with you? Did a Prius run over your toe this morning? The simple fact is that if it did not do what it said it would do why would they be on the 3rd generation of it? I bet you did not bother to read the comments on that artical were everyone that actually owns one (not just drive it for a few days) is saying the same thing as myself. It does get 45 to 50 and the new ones get better. It's obvious that you have never driven one, let alone know anything more about them than what you want to here. As for the battery, did you know that every car is carrying enough explosive volatile liquid that just a single errant spark would make it explode? And as for the battery costing more and a new car to replace? It's more like about $2k for a new one (http://www.trademotion.com/partloca...rius&year=2008&catalogid=1&displayCatalogid=0) and just a few hundred for a used one, go check ebay on that. They are so cheap used because no one ever needs to change it. In fact the warranty for the hybrid components is 150k miles or 10 years. More crap to go wrong you say? There is no starter, no power steering pump, no alternator, no smog pump, the A/C compressor is electric and on the new ones the water pump is even electric. The transmission has no pumps or valves and is fully water cooled. An oil change is 3 quarts (with the filter) and a full transmission fluid change is 4 quarts (every 100k miles). The brake pads usually last about 100k miles because over 7 MPH the drive motor does all the braking unless it's a panic stop.

Off subject but what the heck. I agree with the above and will even add that you can rebuild the battery for $500. Still fugly. Not as bad as the "Smart Car". Does anyone else want to take a bat to those when you see them?

So now back on subject. Since we don't have a graph showing best rpm range for efficiency what about a suck-o-meter gauge? I assume these are just vacuum gauges with a mpg range. Got one in the BMW. Seems to be more rpm influenced than gas pedal .

 

[jelloslug]

Off subject but what the heck. I agree with the above and will even add that you can rebuild the battery for $500. Still fugly. Not as bad as the "Smart Car". Does anyone else want to take a bat to those when you see them?

So now back on subject. Since we don't have a graph showing best rpm range for efficiency what about a suck-o-meter gauge? I assume these are just vacuum gauges with a mpg range. Got one in the BMW. Seems to be more rpm influenced than gas pedal .

I have done a few experiments in my '90. I have noticed that the 2000 to 3500 range seems to give the best instantaneous MPGs. The digital dash that I have in my car has instantaneous and average MPG. All MTX cars have the capability to have a factory MPG gauge if you want to install it.

 

[SHOtime2511]

I'd rock a Prius.

 

[doclees]

I have done a few experiments in my '90. I have noticed that the 2000 to 3500 range seems to give the best instantaneous MPGs. The digital dash that I have in my car has instantaneous and average MPG. All MTX cars have the capability to have a factory MPG gauge if you want to install it.

Great. Where do I get one and where do I install it? Is is SHO specific or any Taurus? It will give me some more information. But how accurate do they seem when figuring miles driven per fill up?

 

[jelloslug]

Great. Where do I get one and where do I install it? Is is SHO specific or any Taurus? It will give me some more information. But how accurate do they seem when figuring miles driven per fill up?

The MPG part seems to be very accurate. You can use any Taurus or Sable digital cluster (except the flex fuel cluster) and I would venture to say that just about any Ford digital cluster from that era would work. The Mark VIII has a separate display for the MPG (and other stuff). If it functions properly it would be a good unit to use. As for installing it just look up any digital cluster install thread here.