HELP!! Need Opinions On Engine Surge!!

[BlackOnBlackATX]

Im sorry this is a little long winded, but here goes.

Ok, I was driving tonight and everything was fine, but at half open throttle or more when the car hits 5k rpm's it would start surging ahead about 1-2k rpm's, but like I said when I was less than half throttle it ran like a champ. At first I thought my tranny finally disintegrated but then I didnt think so because of the motor surging and when im not flooring it it would shift fine. I did have the intake off today to repair a sheared thermostat housing bolt, and when I checked under the hood everything seemed to be replaced properly except my EGR valve had come unscrewed (on the bottom of the valve where the exhaust enters) So I tightened it as much as I could by hand and it actually seemed better when I took it back out, the surging was nowhere near as violent, but I did notice some kind of sucking/spitting noise from where the EGR would be.

So im asking this, am I crazy? Should I torque up the EGR and forget about it, or does everyone think my tranny is history? I dont have any cruise control either which would lead me to believe the VSS could be shot, but I dont exhibit any of the usual symptoms of heating up and losing my shifts. And I dont really know if it is possible for a loos EGR connection to cause this, I would think it could be, but I dunno. Anyone who had any idea let me know!!!
Bob

PS- its 1:26AM here, I wont be replying until morning if anyone helps, so thanks in advance!!!

 

[Bizzy]

If you hear a sucking sound I'd be inclined to say you have a vacume leak somewhere. I'd recheck all the connections.

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

OK , so i rechecked all the vaccum connections and i didnt find anything out of place that i would have touched yesterday when i took off the intake. i left the computer unplugged over night and took her out again this morning, it was better but at around 6k rpm's (when i think it was about to shift) it surged again stuttered again, but again, when i was less than half throttle, shifted nice and tight no problems. i just dont know what to think. any more ideas?

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Did you torque down the EGR bolts correctly? There is a gasket that is there that sometimes falls out when removing it. Do you have a gasket on yours? Is it good? Do you still hear the hissing sound coming from there? Is it possible that the hissing sound could be from a vacuum line that is near the EGR, as there are lots of them.

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

OK so i took the intake back off to make sure i had done everything properly and out it back on and i still have the problem. It runs fine until about 5k rpm's and then it surges to 6k, 7.5k violently. Someone must have an idea. PLEASE!!!!

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

hey Mikey I didnt see your post before I put up my new one, I triple checked the EGR and true I dont hear the hissing sounds anymore but I still have no idea what could be doing this. The car was fine until i took off the intake to fix the thermostat housing!

 

[revhardSHO]

its problably something with your intake. Are you sure all connections to the throttle body are connected? Make sure the cable rides smoothly. With the engine running try adjusting the throttle with your hand(from throttle body) and see if it does the same thing. good luck!
you may also want to disconnect the fuse to the Cruise control.

silas

 

[shojuan]

Did you clean your IAB valve and reset the computer's idle?

Rick

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

Hey Silas, all the tubes are where they should be, unfortunatley though since the car is limited to 4k rpm in park i cant rev it out by hand and unfortunately i dont have anyone here right now to help or id put it on jacks and do it in drive, but i still think it may be alittle dangerous. Unfortunately, the cruise control doesnt work, but i will still pull the fuse and see what happens.

Hey shojuan, i did not clean the IAB, and only because when im steady throttle the car is fine and my idle is magnificent, but nonetheless, i will take your suggestion and tackle this in the day light hours tommorow. as per the idle i did leave the battery unhooked all night to drain the ECU, which gave no noticeable results, but are you suggesting a different method? In the end yes i too agree it must be my intake, only question is, if ive pulled it off twice to make sure and triple checked wtf could it be then?

for ***** and giggles i replaced my tps just now and i will clean my MAF tommorow since i found som threads where this caused bucking. ill keep everyone informed, thanks so much for everyones help and please throw some more ideas at me, im a good mechanic (or at least i like to think i am) but this stumps the **** out of me and if i can avoid it i dont want to go to the dealer.

 

[Jr's Sho]

Definitely sounds like a vacuum leak, could be EGR, intake, or throttle body. I'd take a can of cheap carburetor cleaner or something like it and spray around the intake gaskets, EGR, and throttle body gaskets to find out if it's sucking any air in. Just an idea.

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

Hey Randy, thanks for the idea, i will try it out, but what should i be looking for when i spray the areas around the gaskets? i dont think i followed what you were saying. tonight was odd though, i was at a friends house and i went to start the car to come home and it did not want to start. the starter was cranking but i had to try 4 times before i got it running, which has never happened to me before. so im also thinking, could this be a fuel pump/filter problem? any ideas? the one scary thing is when the engine surged, it was much much much worse when cold, but at operating temp it wasnt quite as bad this time, but the engine did surge to about 8k rpms, which we all know is the end or redline, so this is definately not too good. im open to all suggestions!! thanks you guys.

 

[Jr's Sho]

Spray the cleaner around where the gaskets are, like where the throttle body and intake meet, where the intake bolts to the engine, and the gasket between the EGR valve and the intake to check if there is any type of leakage, listen to the engine to see if the idle raises up any as you spray. You will definitely notice it if you have a leak, it will sound like someone gave the car a little gas. Check it out, and what exactly do you mean by surging to 8k rpms? Does the engine raise by itself a few thousand rpms? I've never had that problem before so I'm not sure what it is doing. When you triple-checked the EGR valve, did you see if there is a gasket still there? Mine fell every time I loosened my EGR valve.

<small>[ December 01, 2002, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Jr's Sho ]</small>

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

Hey Randy, I will definately follow your advice with the vaccum check. But what happens is, Ill stomp the gas, accelerates great up until about 6k rpm's, then it jumps to 8k, back to 7k, to 7.5k, surging and dropping etc. I just dont know what to think about it. Its doing it all on its own. I tried a new TPS and unplugged my MAF for a bit and no change. Tommorow I will tackle the IAB however and see what happens. I am thinking about switching back to the H3Z1 PCM and hoping it will fix itself but I dont see why the PCM should be my problem when it was fine for the 2 months ive had it.

And yes, Im sure the EGR gasket was there, when I remove the intake I do not remove the EGR, I only unscrew the ****** holding it to the exhaust feed, and I can see the gasket in between it and the manifold, so I know im OK there. Just dont know whats going on everywhere else I guess.

Thanks again!
Bob

<small>[ December 01, 2002, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: BlackOnBlackATX ]</small>

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Hey man, whatever you do, don't stick that car on jack stands and rev it in gear. That is a sure way to destroy the engine. I'm hesitating to think that you have a vacuum leak, because in my experience, any leak that would affect performance that greatly would also cause the car to idle irratically. You say that is idles fine... this sure is a confusing one. Have you run your codes. There may be a wealth of information there for us to use to help you. Check my sig for details.

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

Dont worry man, I have no desire to put the car on jacks and rev it out, I can only see bad things happening to me that way LOL, im still driving it though since its my only mode of transportation right now. I plan on running the codes today though, so we will see what happens. Thanks!

 

[revhardSHO]

Yeah i vaccuum leak seemas a little odd, since it would problably effect your idle speed also...

when you reach 6K and it starts to surging to 8K then down again, does it effect your speed, or does it feel as if nothing happens when the engine jumps to 8K? 6-8K is a big jump and you should really feel it. If you dont anything as it surges its problably a driveline problem... your transmission or torque converter. Make sure the fluid level is good. Just a though.

silas

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

Silas, I do feel the bucking as it surges so unfortunately im still out of answers.

I did run the codes today, and this is what i got:

122 Throttle Position Sensor voltage

*this is my fault since I was stupid
enough to leave it unplugged yesterday,
and I put a new TPS on last night so im
sure this isnt it.

157 Mass Air Flow sensor

*this im sure is from unplugging it and
driving around to see if it was my
problem, but to be safe I put a new one
on today and no difference.

211 Profile Ignition Pickup sensor circuit failure

* this is where i am just stumped. wtf is
a PIP? I know its not a CPS because I
wouldnt be going anywhere then. Any
ideas? Im going to call Ford and ask
tommorow.

OK this is what I have, I hope someone can make more sense of the third than I can, cuz I guess thats my problem. So now I am going to consult my Chiltons and see what it says. Thanks for the help you guys.

 

[BeatDaSHO]

check your connections at the DIS module. check the bolts at the crossover tube and check the ground strap. make sure everything is tight in that area. your problem doesn't sound like a cps. what you could do is clear the codes, run the car again until it surges, and then run the codes again and see what comes up.

Greg

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

Greg, I actually dont have the bolts in the crossover tube right now, I couldnt line up the holes for god only knows what reason. But the tube is flush and in place so it looks ok. The DIS is plugged in, but I will check if they are dirty or something. You think this is my problem? The ground strap is bolted into the manifold but not the support, For some reason I couldnt get the support to line up with the hole on the intake. I think I need to unblot it on the bottom and pull it up a bit. Thanks again man.
Bob

 

[Mike Kopstain]

BlackOnBlackATX:
Silas, I do feel the bucking as it surges so unfortunately im still out of answers.

I did run the codes today, and this is what i got:

122 Throttle Position Sensor voltage

*this is my fault since I was stupid
enough to leave it unplugged yesterday,
and I put a new TPS on last night so im
sure this isnt it.

157 Mass Air Flow sensor

*this im sure is from unplugging it and
driving around to see if it was my
problem, but to be safe I put a new one
on today and no difference.

211 Profile Ignition Pickup sensor circuit failure

* this is where i am just stumped. wtf is
a PIP? I know its not a CPS because I
wouldnt be going anywhere then. Any
ideas? Im going to call Ford and ask
tommorow.

OK this is what I have, I hope someone can make more sense of the third than I can, cuz I guess thats my problem. So now I am going to consult my Chiltons and see what it says. Thanks for the help you guys.

Sounds like this could be your problem, although the symptoms are presenting themselves oddly. The PIP picks up a signal from the crank that supplies the engine with timing information. It's not uncommon for this part to fail, but it is uncommon for it to present it's failure in this way. It seems odd that the problem only happens after you take the car apart and put it back together. Have a look on the rear cam. The cam position sensor is at the end of it. It is circular. Follow the wires coming off of this sensor. Maybe you snagged one of them or there is an intermittent ground. This is a confusing problem.

If you haven't already cleared your codes, do so now by removing the jumper from the EEC test connector while the codes are being output. Then we will see what codes come back. I'm sure someone here can eventually get this figured out.

<small>[ December 01, 2002, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Mikeys_Taurus ]</small>