Helix AutoSport (UK) stepping up to manufacture upgraded clutches

[802SHO]

Not sure how I missed the notification of your post. Glad I could find someone to take this on, you and Rob. Things are looking up!

Sure are

 

[802SHO]

I asked Rob to go over our hp and torque numbers the new clutches are designed to hold up to. I don’t see any reason for these new clutches to be holding less than 800+ awhp, maybe down the road but right now we need something more than capable. Helix does not disappoint. Rob has already exceeded that mark. The friction material getting used failed at 1500nm = 1106.343 ft/lbs.
We’re coming out swinging on these clutches. Other things will likely not be up to the task but Helix has already agreed to improve anything else insufficient after we get the clutches done and tested.

 

[TJ SHOnuff]

Defintely watching this!

 

[TJ SHOnuff]

Are the clutches the weak link in the transmission? I was told that it was the material in the gears?

 

[802SHO]

Are the clutches the weak link in the transmission? I was told that it was the material in the gears?

It’s a combination of the valve body and clutch packs.
Everything in red is a premature failure point. Just about all of them help burn up the clutches of which the clutch material isn’t sufficient to begin with. You can buy shift kits but all that does is return “some” worn out areas to return to “like stock” while these kits dont replace everything, as good as the kits are, nothing beats a completely brand new valve body assembly. I learned that from a certified Sonnax dealer.

A lot of platforms, someone or some company will redesign the valve body so you can buy an upgraded one, designed for performance and likely solves issues from OEM versions. While we get absolutely nothing or the sort. It’s best to just replace the thing and the clutches.

Start off a freshly updated transmission with vigorous preventative maintenance and there’s no telling how much longer it will last. Every mileage interval recommended by Ford is for Grandma to abide by. For everyone else it stars the ticking time bomb bc we’ve learned that vigorous preventative maintenance makes a huge difference.

Nobody is breaking gears

 

[ArthurUSCG]

Do they have a company they work with the could make a helical torque bias LSD? aka torsen style

Since we are going to already be completely opening the trans, we might as well make sure we are putting all of the power to the wheel with grip.

 

[802SHO]

Do they have a company they work with the could make a helical torque bias LSD? aka torsen style

Since we are going to already be completely opening the trans, we might as well make sure we are putting all of the power to the wheel with grip.

I get where you’re going with this. It’s still worth it to open it up and install a high friction set of clutches regardless if there also happens to be a helical torque bias LSD available.

I’d be willing to bet they can find a place that will create such a thing. With anything like that, you or whoever willing to send them a front diff for development would need to be ready and willing to fork out a hefty chunk of cash for that to be made. The first one is always going to be very expensive in every manufacturing scenario.

We already do have LSD conversion spring loaded plates available from Traction Concepts for the front and rear differential for our cars. I have both. From what I’ve seen, I’m confident the only thing that could fail or wear is the internal diff gears/plate material overtime, leading to simply less grip, slowly becoming more like the open diffs they always were before ..overtime. Nothing to lose in the end. I’ll work with that, until something else comes along or we see a need to go all out with what you suggested. Not that we don’t need it, just that for now we’ve got something to suffice for the moment and momentarily check that box. Let’s test this shit out, first.

 

[802SHO]

Latest update:

 

[SM105K]

Good stuff.

 

[Mahu24]

Sweet! Glad the ball is rolling. Be cool to see these compared to the Raybestos clutches on the dyno rig they have

 

[kryptto]

This is such great news.... the old motto of Ford - Quality is Job One - Helix

 

[802SHO]

Sweet! Glad the ball is rolling. Be cool to see these compared to the Raybestos clutches on the dyno rig they have

Right! That is a good idea for a couple reasons. 1) what is the power holding capacity of Raybestos VS Helix 1500nm.
2) With that information what % better is Helix?

I’m definitely biased lol but can you blame me?

Raybestos has been flaky, materials and power rating unknown, relying heavily on company brand/reputation (which oddly my engine builder has had lots of bad luck with their products and doesn’t consider them an option) took money on orders when no parts existed, left us all kicking rocks wondering why does everyone seem to hate our platform, then they made clutches and let nobody know, when last we heard they needed more ppl to pay upfront.

Helix has been rock solid taking this project on, actively communicates even when left alone, did not require mass interest, steadily making progress and has been transparent about materials and power ratings. Helix is no stranger to extreme performance clutches/flywheels and one off custom parts.

Regardless I’m happy to be part of finding a another solution. The more options the better.

 

[SM105K]

I have a feeling that the Helix will outperform the "other" ones by quite a bit.

 

[Ecoboost_xsport]

I have a feeling that the Helix will outperform the "other" ones by quite a bit.

I don't think that is even a question, comparing the two products is apples to oranges. The Helix product has had way more of an extreme, high-performance treatment given to it whereas the Raybestos product is an entry level performance part...and their price points will reflect this. Remember, Raybestos clutches are just a "stage-1". I have no idea where the Helix product would lie comparatively, but I'm sure it's up there. It's a given that they will perform better, and for that I think we all benefit and @802SHO gets all the credit for spearheading this. How much better? That will be interesting indeed.

But to dismiss the Raybestos product completely based on how the process went is also unnecessary. It fits a gap between the Helix and OEM, and remember, before Helix, we all would've chomped at the bit for the Raybestos (versus having nothing) stuff. I see it as glass-half-full, I'm not upset at all the way the process went down. We are talking about a huge corporation vs a small, niche-specific business. Raybestos would NEVER have responded the way Helix does, nor in the short amount of time that Helix can. I definitely prefer the custom touch that Helix has been giving Andrew, but knowing how large of a business Raybestos is, I can understand why it went down the way it did. In a lot of ways, it's even more impressive we got Raybestos to even listen to us at all. It's like a few people asking Coca-Cola to make a new flavor of Coke versus going down to a local soda brewery to have them try making a new flavor. You're gonna get way more of a personal touch with the local shop than with Coca-Cola. We asked Raybestos and they delivered. Everything that happened in-between is pretty irrelevant at this point.

Yeah, some people hate Raybestos products, I get that. It's the age old comparison anytime a big company gets involved. It's like asking 10 people who makes the best motor oil and you'll get 10 different answers, each "swearing" how crappy the other products are and provide some anecdotal evidence to support their argument.

Look, Helix will be, hands-down, the performance product to get. That's not even in dispute. I'll be the first person to say I like buying the most extreme stuff over some entry level part. I wouldn't dismiss Raybestos as it will fit a market. I guarantee they will sell more units to SHO customers than Helix will....and it's all because of the price point (I don't agree with this sentiment, I'm just being honest).

Again, be proud of the way we were able to get Goliath to listen to a few of us car nerds. I know I am.

 

[802SHO]

I don't think that is even a question, comparing the two products is apples to oranges. The Helix product has had way more of an extreme, high-performance treatment given to it whereas the Raybestos product is an entry level performance part...and their price points will reflect this. Remember, Raybestos clutches are just a "stage-1". I have no idea where the Helix product would lie comparatively, but I'm sure it's up there. It's a given that they will perform better, and for that I think we all benefit and @802SHO gets all the credit for spearheading this. How much better? That will be interesting indeed.

But to dismiss the Raybestos product completely based on how the process went is also unnecessary. It fits a gap between the Helix and OEM, and remember, before Helix, we all would've chomped at the bit for the Raybestos (versus having nothing) stuff. I see it as glass-half-full, I'm not upset at all the way the process went down. We are talking about a huge corporation vs a small, niche-specific business. Raybestos would NEVER have responded the way Helix does, nor in the short amount of time that Helix can. I definitely prefer the custom touch that Helix has been giving Andrew, but knowing how large of a business Raybestos is, I can understand why it went down the way it did. In a lot of ways, it's even more impressive we got Raybestos to even listen to us at all. It's like a few people asking Coca-Cola to make a new flavor of Coke versus going down to a local soda brewery to have them try making a new flavor. You're gonna get way more of a personal touch with the local shop than with Coca-Cola. We asked Raybestos and they delivered. Everything that happened in-between is pretty irrelevant at this point.

Yeah, some people hate Raybestos products, I get that. It's the age old comparison anytime a big company gets involved. It's like asking 10 people who makes the best motor oil and you'll get 10 different answers, each "swearing" how crappy the other products are and provide some anecdotal evidence to support their argument.

Look, Helix will be, hands-down, the performance product to get. That's not even in dispute. I'll be the first person to say I like buying the most extreme stuff over some entry level part. I wouldn't dismiss Raybestos as it will fit a market. I guarantee they will sell more units to SHO customers than Helix will....and it's all because of the price point (I don't agree with this sentiment, I'm just being honest).

Again, be proud of the way we were able to get Goliath to listen to a few of us car nerds. I know I am.

@Mahu24 spearheaded this and decided to get my attention and hand it over to me, I’m not sure why honestly. I took it on as a challenge and I’m not doing it for just me, doing it for everyone. As per the metaphor we don’t need Coca-Cola for anything at this point but it’s great GrapeVine Cranberry Grape Soda exists now too.

Idk if I would personally refer to anyone or any business as Goliath but no harm if you see them that way. Wasn’t taking anything away from the struggle and victory to get Raybestos on board. I was part of it.

 

[SM105K]

I don't think that is even a question, comparing the two products is apples to oranges. The Helix product has had way more of an extreme, high-performance treatment given to it whereas the Raybestos product is an entry level performance part...and their price points will reflect this. Remember, Raybestos clutches are just a "stage-1". I have no idea where the Helix product would lie comparatively, but I'm sure it's up there. It's a given that they will perform better, and for that I think we all benefit and @802SHO gets all the credit for spearheading this. How much better? That will be interesting indeed.

But to dismiss the Raybestos product completely based on how the process went is also unnecessary. It fits a gap between the Helix and OEM, and remember, before Helix, we all would've chomped at the bit for the Raybestos (versus having nothing) stuff. I see it as glass-half-full, I'm not upset at all the way the process went down. We are talking about a huge corporation vs a small, niche-specific business. Raybestos would NEVER have responded the way Helix does, nor in the short amount of time that Helix can. I definitely prefer the custom touch that Helix has been giving Andrew, but knowing how large of a business Raybestos is, I can understand why it went down the way it did. In a lot of ways, it's even more impressive we got Raybestos to even listen to us at all. It's like a few people asking Coca-Cola to make a new flavor of Coke versus going down to a local soda brewery to have them try making a new flavor. You're gonna get way more of a personal touch with the local shop than with Coca-Cola. We asked Raybestos and they delivered. Everything that happened in-between is pretty irrelevant at this point.

Yeah, some people hate Raybestos products, I get that. It's the age old comparison anytime a big company gets involved. It's like asking 10 people who makes the best motor oil and you'll get 10 different answers, each "swearing" how crappy the other products are and provide some anecdotal evidence to support their argument.

Look, Helix will be, hands-down, the performance product to get. That's not even in dispute. I'll be the first person to say I like buying the most extreme stuff over some entry level part. I wouldn't dismiss Raybestos as it will fit a market. I guarantee they will sell more units to SHO customers than Helix will....and it's all because of the price point (I don't agree with this sentiment, I'm just being honest).

Again, be proud of the way we were able to get Goliath to listen to a few of us car nerds. I know I am.

I bolded in your statement what I was way to lazy to put in mine. I was eluding that in a "break it down for me barney style" in crayon on lined paper way....in my head.

 

[802SHO]

I invite you guys to look at these new (wet test) numbers from Helix.
Like what? Are you kidding me?!? That’s insane!

Disc pack 1 3095Nm = 2,282 ft/lbs
Disc pack 2 1857Nm = 1,369 ft/lbs
Disc pack 3 2476Nm = 1,826 ft/lbs

What!?!?!?!?



Even so, and glad he pointed that out….that’s nothing. Even with a small loss like that it’s well beyond anything I expected. Way way beyond.

Here’s some done, the material resembles cardboard lol. Of course it not, it’s a mixture of copper/Kevlar.

 

[Vestin112]

Fuuuuu need me some of that

 

[SM105K]

Geez, pretty sure this is going to cause some more issues. Like broken transmission cases and twisted input shafts. Damn impressive though.

 

[Bluezone]

I invite you guys to look at these new (wet test) numbers from Helix. View attachment 88164View attachment 88165
Like what? Are you kidding me?!? That’s insane!

Disc pack 1 3095Nm = 2,282 ft/lbs
Disc pack 2 1857Nm = 1,369 ft/lbs
Disc pack 3 2476Nm = 1,826 ft/lbs

What!?!?!?!?

View attachment 88166

Even so, and glad he pointed that out….that’s nothing. Even with a small loss like that it’s well beyond anything I expected. Way way beyond.

Here’s some done, the material resembles cardboard lol. Of course it not, it’s a mixture of copper/Kevlar. View attachment 88167

The most impressive towing package I've ever seen.