St Louis SHO
Rollin' coal
I'm out.
FSTB not needed with SFCs?
- Thread starter kikkinasphalt
- Start date
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luigisho
SHO Member
It is feasable and likely true. There was a car or two with front end damage that lead to that conclusion. Those were the full length SFC's. There are shorty sets out there that may not impact the front crumple zones. I don't recall how far back they go and how much that might alter rear collision dynamics. My car drove alot different (better handling) with full SFC's but there may be a safety issue with collision. I never got to personally test that.
SHODWN
Mother Threasa
I dont use one and in 5 years havent been passed by a single car nevermind another SHO.. But it could just be my style of driving and knowing that im driving a 500.00 1995 SHO.
K-Dawg
SHO Member
St Louis SHO
Rollin' coal
See, the funny thing is, when somebody else claimed something to be verified fact, you pitched a g#%*mn hissy fit, fists pounding on the table, the whole lot because YOU didn't see proof ratified by God himself.
So you get to be held to the same standard. Proof or ****.
Re-read my ******* posts ******. They had nothing to do with proof. You have become quite the *********** latley. Oh wait, you're mad because my "Stock" car beat your wifes "stock" car in a car show. I get it... "***** envy"
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St Louis SHO
Rollin' coal
Well that's because I haven't bought a set of race tires.
I'll let you use mine.
38SHO
#1 Oil Abuser
man I really think you would need a very hard ass hit to move the subframe into the passenger compartment and injure people
if you had vehicle movement like that, worrying about subframe connectors is the least of your issues......
I whacked a truck at 40mph and came to a damn near instant stop and my subframe didn't move.....
granted I hit something taller so much of the damage was on the upper half of the car around the hood, fenders, strut tower areas..... maybe if it was something lower that I impacted, I would have had more damage down low to the unibody....
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Yeah, that Porsche Boxster in Tex was sure upset about that!
And, I am glad that I will have the honor of breaking a 5 year streak! What you can not accomplish with skill, accomplish with a bigger hammer!!
St Louis SHO
Rollin' coal
That, and maybe the 2700lb weight, 600+hp, downforce mods, oh, and the professional driver I am hiring. But I am sure the FSTB will be part of that equation!
K-Dawg
SHO Member
I've got a pair of STBs that I bought back in 03 and they haven't left the closet since. One day I'll put them on the car and see how they do or don't perform.
This thread makes me think of another question that applies to both the front and rear:
Should the STBs be installed under tension or compression?
This thread makes me think of another question that applies to both the front and rear:
Should the STBs be installed under tension or compression?
hawkeye18
Sorta cares
I jacked the front of my car up via front subframe crossmember when I installed mine (which means tension, right?). Does it make a difference? Probably. It's also probably not that big of one. The way I see it, if the brace is constantly pushing both towers out under normal load, there will be much less room for them to move. Again, as I see it. I might be wrong.
K-Dawg
SHO Member
I meant when at rest, should the bar be under tension or compression. Tension makes sense to me. That would be where the bar is trying to pull both towers in. I would think that the outside strut towers are going to want to move outward during a hard turn.
SHODWN
Mother Threasa
Well that's because I haven't bought a set of race tires.
Oh Kelvin BRING IT!!!!:wave:
Tim, you need to hit yourself in the head with the hammer
In dearborn you both will more then likely pass me, I think im taking a year off and going to take a nice drive to MI in the 2010. No towing , no babysitting, no tools, Just a bucket of beer and a bucket of cleaning stuff.
Although K-Doggy
I do want to run road Atlanta in feb, Mar of 10 with the 95 if you care to come and play 
I told Mark about this we will see if we can set something up.. sounds like a blast to me!!! Ill let you know. But with all the goofing done..
Handleing of the car depends on your own driving skills and talents. What works good for guys like Tim and Kelvin might not work for me. Eberyone has to tru stuff out for themselvs. I know I drive way deep into the corners, ride the ABS all the way and like a loose back end with a tight front end.
Some guys like it the oppsite and some guys like to feel more neutral. and some guys just dont know they just follow what others say. Parts for these cars are pretty plentifull try them all out and pick a set of corners that you know where its safe for your testing (not some offramp of the busiest interstate in the country
) zing, bam , BOOM! LOLAnd the guy that said something about putting the subframe under the car, your right over the last 10 years I have bought well over 200 SHO's lots of them from salvage auctions and have seen one maybe that the subframe came loose and went under the car.. IIRC he hit a bridge post at warp 9!
So no worrys there unless you hit a bridge, Battleship, Space Shuttle, the empire state building or something of that magnitude.
Tim, you need to hit yourself in the head with the hammer
OK! (a link, in case we have any weak stomachs on SHOforum)
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http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL85/474603/6738274/375705435.jpg
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St Louis SHO
Rollin' coal
Kirk, you can use my $500 beater...
Shoaz
Studly dood
Weird. Just read this thread for the first time.
There's a lot of discussion about STBs on various forums, and even some pretty serious engineering discussions about whether or not they do any good. A buddy works as a test driver for a major auto manufacturer and I was noting that the factory STB on his latest car come "pre-bent", presumably to clear a hose on top of the engine. The bend in the STB makes it a lot less stiff, and therefore less effective, so I was giving him crap about it. His reply was that factory STBs tend to be pre-bent so that a collision impact on one side of the car doesn't do damage to the other side as well. In other words, the bar is intentionally weakened so that it will fail prior to the support side opposite the impact.
So they're not really counting on it doing much, anyway.
And, yeah, I don't have one on the Pumpkin because they used to cost classing points, and I didn't want to get bumped up a class. This year a rule change means they're free, and I bought an old SHO-shop STB which turns out to not have nearly enough adjustment to work with agressive camber, so it's still not on the car. Same thing with SFCs, they'd cost me points, so they're not on.
I've always suspected that the front towers probably don't flex much since they're so close to the firewall, but I can't claim any experience in comparing the difference with a front STB.
Over the years it's been demonstrated that the SFCs are useful, and in hindsight I wish I'd have had the rear downbars on my cage triangulated to the bottom of the main hoop to do something similar without costing me points.
Among the engineering discussions I've seen related to whether or not there's really deflection, which way it goes, and whether an STB would help or not, it's become clear to me that whether or not there's deflection and which way it might go is highly dependent on how the front structure of the car was engineered. It's very often counter-intuitive. My gut feeling has always been that the increased downforce on the outside tire would force the top of the outer tower inward, but without doing some sort of instrumentation (which some people do with tape and strings and simple stuff like that), there's no real way to tell.
That's also why there seems to be a strong counter argument that STBs may hurt rather than help, as the deflection on one side may make the other side do something undesirable if they're coupled. It probably depends a lot on what the structure of the car is like and how it behaves under load.
Right now I don't seem to be missing the front STB too much. I've had a rear STB of one kind or other forever, but I don't know whether it helps or hurts. I'd love to have SFCs or an equivalent mechanism in the cage to reduce chassis flex, but I don't really know whether that'd help or hurt without doing the experiment, either.
Lately it turns out I've had so much nasty crap going on with the struts moving around on their own that I wouldn't have been able to tell, anyway. Gotta fix that first.
There's a lot of discussion about STBs on various forums, and even some pretty serious engineering discussions about whether or not they do any good. A buddy works as a test driver for a major auto manufacturer and I was noting that the factory STB on his latest car come "pre-bent", presumably to clear a hose on top of the engine. The bend in the STB makes it a lot less stiff, and therefore less effective, so I was giving him crap about it. His reply was that factory STBs tend to be pre-bent so that a collision impact on one side of the car doesn't do damage to the other side as well. In other words, the bar is intentionally weakened so that it will fail prior to the support side opposite the impact.
So they're not really counting on it doing much, anyway.
And, yeah, I don't have one on the Pumpkin because they used to cost classing points, and I didn't want to get bumped up a class. This year a rule change means they're free, and I bought an old SHO-shop STB which turns out to not have nearly enough adjustment to work with agressive camber, so it's still not on the car. Same thing with SFCs, they'd cost me points, so they're not on.
I've always suspected that the front towers probably don't flex much since they're so close to the firewall, but I can't claim any experience in comparing the difference with a front STB.
Over the years it's been demonstrated that the SFCs are useful, and in hindsight I wish I'd have had the rear downbars on my cage triangulated to the bottom of the main hoop to do something similar without costing me points.
Among the engineering discussions I've seen related to whether or not there's really deflection, which way it goes, and whether an STB would help or not, it's become clear to me that whether or not there's deflection and which way it might go is highly dependent on how the front structure of the car was engineered. It's very often counter-intuitive. My gut feeling has always been that the increased downforce on the outside tire would force the top of the outer tower inward, but without doing some sort of instrumentation (which some people do with tape and strings and simple stuff like that), there's no real way to tell.
That's also why there seems to be a strong counter argument that STBs may hurt rather than help, as the deflection on one side may make the other side do something undesirable if they're coupled. It probably depends a lot on what the structure of the car is like and how it behaves under load.
Right now I don't seem to be missing the front STB too much. I've had a rear STB of one kind or other forever, but I don't know whether it helps or hurts. I'd love to have SFCs or an equivalent mechanism in the cage to reduce chassis flex, but I don't really know whether that'd help or hurt without doing the experiment, either.
Lately it turns out I've had so much nasty crap going on with the struts moving around on their own that I wouldn't have been able to tell, anyway. Gotta fix that first.
St Louis SHO
Rollin' coal
Eric, if your car is setup exactly like #99, you have a rear STB welded into the car. You can't see it, but its there. It took Dave pointing it out to me to see it.
To clear up what I said, the guy who told me they are useless (Met him at Carlisle, but cant remember his name) made one with a slider in the middle. Then he zipped a zip tie to it, tracked the car a few laps to find out the zip tie didnt move, thus proving the strut towers do not move.
To clear up what I said, the guy who told me they are useless (Met him at Carlisle, but cant remember his name) made one with a slider in the middle. Then he zipped a zip tie to it, tracked the car a few laps to find out the zip tie didnt move, thus proving the strut towers do not move.
hawkeye18
Sorta cares
A slider? I don't really understand what you're saying here. is it just a slider that's zip-tied to the firewall? Besides, I'd be willing to bet that the amount of movement necessary to affect suspension feel is not one that's large enough to be easily detected by the ***** eye. Maybe not. I don't know...
